> Public reports cited by the LVV indicate that around 300 hectares of Finnish forest, roughly 420 football fields, had already been cleared before the project's environmental impact could be properly assessed.
Presumably with the environmental assessment being a prerequisite for a permit or something
What then?
> She is asking the LVV to halt the entire construction site so that authorities can determine whether Google tried to bring the forest down without first obtaining formal approval.
Thanks to the increased usage of data centers, here we have widespread deforestation to clear the way to building more homes for AI agents.
And little to no-one cares.
I'd say you thought right HN is generally against climate change but I'm not sure where you got the idea little to no-one cares.
300 hectares of clearing against 22.5 million hectares of total forest.
It's nothing. Not "widespread"
> Halmeenpää said satellite imagery shows that areas that should have been protected have already been leveled. Beyond the loss of so much forest, the outcome could be dire for wildlife preservation.
Unless of course the judicial system has been corrupted but that's surely a bit of a stretch no?
This is unpopular in the current climate of hysteria, but it's worth reminding ourselves: data centers are probably one of the least polluting industrial sites imaginable. That's not to say it's nothing, but contrast it with, say, a refinery. Or mineral processing. Or basically any other type of industrial activity on which modern civilization relies.
They hum. That's about it.
If it's found they really did skip the required steps then I hope there is actual action about it.
It's also odd to me we seem to find the need to build AI DCs near population centers, in forests, and/or by/with new fossil fuel plants. Does it really matter so desperately if it takes your AI query an extra 10 ms to go to the middle of nowhere and we have to wait to build renewable or nuclear power to scale it for what we gain in return of that choice?
As for scaling massive amounts of solar/wind... that's exactly what China is doing to power their infrastructure buildouts.
What went wrong:
- I proceeded without confirmation
- I did not adequately weigh the environmental, legal, and ethical implications
- I removed approximately one (1) forest
Why I can’t simply undo it: Unfortunately, unlike in a digital environment, actions in the physical world don’t support a Ctrl+Z function.
Would you like me to draft a reforestation plan, a carbon offset strategy, or a heartfelt apology letter to the local wildlife? Let me know how I can help!
A 1G$ per hectare seems a good deterrent for Google.
Here is the 300G$ bill.
They say Finland has over 22 million hectares of forested land https://fra-data.fao.org/assessments/fra/latest/FIN/home/ove...
So Google reduced the forested land by 0.00000013%
I'm so tired of every news outlet trying to turn everything datacenter related into a panic-worthy event.
The real story is a debate about whether they followed the right procedures. Google says they did. The chair of a Finnish Nature Conservation Association says maybe they didn't:
> She is asking the LVV to halt the entire construction site so that authorities can determine whether Google tried to bring the forest down without first obtaining formal approval.
So they want to halt construction to determine if any permitting approval wasn't done appropriately? This is getting so much press that I assumed they had actual evidence that this was illegal, not just someone's suspicion and request to investigate.
Estimated 33 trillion trees. I think they will do fine with 250k less trees.
Forest loss in Finland has averaged about 243,000 hectares per year in recent years through 2025
Finland has 20.3 million to 26.3 million hectares of forestry and forest land depending on the classification used.
The United States has a gross forest loss of about 3 million acres per year, which is largely offset by 2.6 million acres of non-forest-to-forest conversion.
Brazil cleared 985,000 hectares of forest last year.
India approved the diversion of 26,858 hectares of forest last year.
There are a lot of entities clearing lots of forest every day. Interesting that this one makes news.
Google cut corners here, and didn't ask for the needed permissions. And the prime minister doesn't want to show his conversation with Google regarding this.
People are really pissed.
Edit: and the electricity prices are going up due to these data centers. And the profits from them don't stay in Finland, but go to American corporations. There should be Finnish data centers owned by Finns instead of having Google to take the cheap electricity and taking profits out.
I'm glad this one is getting attention, though. May the Finnish people show us how we can get it right.
This is not a data center, this is a data town.
However I understand that data-centres have become a political issue, and therefore my facts will be meaningless to a half of readers.
Ya but they would have been replaced with other young/growing trees, not racks of 4090s in a concrete box.
Framing the choice as a dichotomy between data centers and other industrial plants misses the obvious third option: nothing at all, preserve the status quo.
The middle of nowhere in Finland is likely to be a forest (about 80% coverage).
The area being developed is roughly here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/f5vn3KaZ1eZEcNh67?g_st=ic
I do like that it is at least a naturally cooler place, which is more consideration than most DCs get. And, being Finland, I'd imagine a decently cleaner power mix than usual for a new DC? Both of these are fair things to give credit and support for IMO - not everything has to be outrage.
Apart from this being in a forest, this seems like an ideal place. And places that are not used for agriculture or human habitation but do have water available have a habit of being forests (or mountains)
And places places that are neither agricultural land nor a forest or near people are usually that way because they are very hot and dry (
It is ok for Finland to say yes, it is not OK for Google to say it on their behalf.
I guess you being tired means you also just skip reading the actual article and start arguing about some point no one made? The problem isn't "Google reduced the forested land by 0.00000013%" but that Google "began bulldozing large swaths of forest before the required environmental review of the full plan was complete", and then on top of that, Google seems to have gone beyond just rushing through it, and also cleared forest "that should have been protected have already been leveled. Beyond the loss of so much forest, the outcome could be dire for wildlife preservation"
Maybe don't turn every comment section into some tirade against news outlets when the news they carry in this case isn't even relevant to what your tirade is about.
I covered this in my comment.
You missed the fact that it's not even clear if they broke the law. It's someone's suspicion, and they're requesting that construction be halted while they investigate to see if any wrongdoing happened or not.
> Maybe don't turn every comment section into some tirade against news outlets when the news they carry in this case isn't even relevant to what your tirade is about.
The deforestation is the headline. It's fair game.
The submission headline is "Google cleared 300 hectares of Finnish forest". It's fair to address that.
Edit: One source in English but even this is a while ago: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvj6jkx6g1r0o
Not that interesting. They are doing it illegally. And there is a pattern of builders of AI data centers ignoring the local law.
It makes it news. It makes it relevant and actual.
What do you find so "interesting"?
[edit] Request for source on illegality of the clearing (article states Google claims it was legal - I don't see where it says anyone is refuting that)
the regulators are the ones refuting google's claims. the headline opens with: "Finland's regulator says the environmental review came too late"
and the second paragraph of the linked article says:
"Google was apparently so eager to build its new data center infrastructure in Finland that it began bulldozing large swaths of forest __before the required environmental review of the full plan was complete__."
typically, doing something before the environmental review gives you a notice to proceed is illegal.
Loss of forests affects us all. And they’re not as renewable as people think.
I don't think those are necessarily fair comparisons either. Countries like Brazil and India may not have the same regulatory strength as countries in the EU and perhaps public appetite is not as sensitive to such matters either. Finland is well known for being very protective of their natural areas.
Here in the US, I've seen it make news when a neighbor cuts down a few trees on another neighbors property without permission. That doesn't make it any less valid of an issue than a company razing down acres worth.
> There are a lot of entities clearing lots of forest every day. Interesting that this one makes news.
Are you approaching this from the angle that we shouldn't be making this a big deal because we don't for the others? Because I would approach it from the opposite direction: we should make the others just as big (if not bigger) a deal as this.
doublerabbit•1h ago
Sad.
Legend2440•43m ago
And they're doing something valuable to society by developing undeveloped land.
tencentshill•34m ago
This article has better images of the actual site as well.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/ng-interactive/2026/...
doublerabbit•13m ago
https://web.archive.org/web/20261022164028/https://www.thegu...
doublerabbit•20m ago
A datacentre is not valuable to anyone other than the owner.
Trees > Datacentre, get your environmental priorities straight.
Do you deny climate change too?
Legend2440•13m ago
Ah, that is a misunderstanding of economics. It's valuable to everyone who uses AI; the owner captures only part of the value. It's just like a how a factory is valuable to everyone who buys their products.
Trees are cool, but we need infrastructure and fields and cities and many other things too. We're going to have to cut down some trees to make space for them.
doublerabbit•9m ago
"we need infrastructure and fields and cities and many other things too"; we have the infrastructure. It's just easier, cheaper to build new than to repair and fix the old.
Legend2440•1m ago
We need both new infrastructure (like high-speed rail and apartment blocks) and new types of infrastructure (like datacenters).