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Benzene at 200

https://www.chemistryworld.com/opinion/benzene-at-200/4021504.article
112•Brajeshwar•4h ago•60 comments

Working on databases from prison

https://turso.tech/blog/working-on-databases-from-prison
533•dvektor•6h ago•341 comments

OpenTelemetry for Go: Measuring overhead costs

https://coroot.com/blog/opentelemetry-for-go-measuring-the-overhead/
41•openWrangler•4h ago•17 comments

Show HN: Zeekstd – Rust Implementation of the ZSTD Seekable Format

https://github.com/rorosen/zeekstd
143•rorosen•22h ago•26 comments

ZjsComponent: A Pragmatic Approach to Reusable UI Fragments for Web Development

https://arxiv.org/abs/2506.11016
39•lelanthran•4h ago•27 comments

Show HN: Canine – A Heroku alternative built on Kubernetes

https://github.com/czhu12/canine
9•czhu12•49m ago•3 comments

Show HN: dk – A script runner and cross-compiler, written in OCaml

https://diskuv.com/dk/help/latest/
34•beckford•4h ago•2 comments

Nanonets-OCR-s – OCR model that transforms documents into structured markdown

https://huggingface.co/nanonets/Nanonets-OCR-s
211•PixelPanda•13h ago•52 comments

Adding public transport data to Transitous

https://www.volkerkrause.eu/2025/06/14/transitous-adding-data.html
23•todsacerdoti•2d ago•0 comments

Darklang Goes Open Source

https://blog.darklang.com/darklang-goes-open-source/
89•stachudotnet•3h ago•33 comments

Is gravity just entropy rising? Long-shot idea gets another look

https://www.quantamagazine.org/is-gravity-just-entropy-rising-long-shot-idea-gets-another-look-20250613/
208•pseudolus•18h ago•191 comments

Start your own Internet Resiliency Club

https://bowshock.nl/irc/
465•todsacerdoti•11h ago•262 comments

Maya Blue: Unlocking the Mysteries of an Ancient Pigment

https://www.mexicolore.co.uk/maya/home/maya-blue-unlocking-the-mysteries-of-an-ancient-pigment
49•DanielKehoe•2d ago•17 comments

Why SSL was renamed to TLS in late 90s (2014)

https://tim.dierks.org/2014/05/security-standards-and-name-changes-in.html
462•Bogdanp•1d ago•208 comments

The Members of the Dull Men's Club

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/jun/09/meet-the-members-of-the-dull-mens-club-some-of-them-would-bore-the-ears-off-you
13•herbertl•1h ago•5 comments

Getting free internet on a cruise, saving $170

https://angad.me/blog/2025/getting-free-cruise-internet/
57•humanperhaps•1h ago•99 comments

Infracost (YC W21) is hiring software engineers (GMT+2 to GMT-6)

https://infracost.io/join-the-team
1•aliscott•7h ago

Object personification in autism: This paper will be sad if you don't read (2018)

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30101594/
60•oliverkwebb•3h ago•64 comments

Show HN: Trieve CLI – Terminal-Based LLM Agent Loop with Search Tool for PDFs

https://github.com/devflowinc/trieve/tree/main/clients/cli
16•skeptrune•4h ago•0 comments

Jokes and Humour in the Public Android API

https://voxelmanip.se/2025/06/14/jokes-and-humour-in-the-public-android-api/
244•todsacerdoti•19h ago•136 comments

Scientists genetically engineer a lethal mosquito STD to combat malaria

https://newatlas.com/biology/genetically-engineered-lethal-mosquito-std-combat-malaria/
10•burnt-resistor•1h ago•1 comments

Occurences of swearing in the Linux kernel source code over time

https://www.vidarholen.net/contents/wordcount/#fuck*,shit*,damn*,idiot*,retard*,crap*
97•microsoftedging•2d ago•170 comments

Mathematical Illustrations: A Manual of Geometry and PostScript

https://personal.math.ubc.ca/~cass/graphics/text/www/
36•Bogdanp•5h ago•15 comments

Transparent peer review to be extended to all of Nature's research papers

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-025-01880-9
6•rntn•26m ago•0 comments

Modifying an HDMI dummy plug's EDID using a Raspberry Pi

https://www.downtowndougbrown.com/2025/06/modifying-an-hdmi-dummy-plugs-edid-using-a-raspberry-pi/
277•zdw•1d ago•75 comments

Childhood leukemia: how a deadly cancer became treatable

https://ourworldindata.org/childhood-leukemia-treatment-history
276•surprisetalk•1d ago•79 comments

A Framework for Characterizing Emergent Conflict Between Non-Coordinating Agents [pdf]

https://paperclipmaximizer.ai/Unaware_Adversaries.pdf
17•ycombiredd•2d ago•2 comments

Real-time CO2 monitoring without batteries or external power

https://news.kaist.ac.kr/newsen/html/news/?mode=V&mng_no=47450
109•gnabgib•20h ago•28 comments

Mechanisms for Detection and Repair of Puncture Damage in Soft Robotics [pdf]

https://smr.unl.edu/papers/Krings_et_al-2025-ICRA.pdf
17•PaulHoule•2d ago•0 comments

Twin – A Textmode WINdow Environment

https://github.com/cosmos72/twin
136•kim_rutherford•23h ago•28 comments
Open in hackernews

Working on databases from prison

https://turso.tech/blog/working-on-databases-from-prison
532•dvektor•6h ago

Comments

gavinray•5h ago
Preston, great to see you made it this far!

We emailed, back when the post about your circumstances was shared here in Nov. 2023. I knew you'd see success.

Huge shoutout to Jessica and UL for all the work they do, and here's to a bright future ahead for you =)

dvektor•3h ago
Thanks Gavin! Really appreciate the support.
voidUpdate•5h ago
I'm glad to hear accounts of people in the prison system who are given the opportunity to do some good. While I am admittedly less sympathetic of dealers, the fact that the author recognises that they were in a bad situation and have been able to make positive progress since being given the opportunity to is really nice to hear
komali2•4h ago
I don't know the circumstances of this case, but in many states, e.g. Texas my home state, simply having above an arbitrarily defined amount of a given controlled substance automatically gets you tagged with "intent to sell." An overloaded court system combined with a pay-to-win "justice" system means a lot of people take the charge in their plea deal even if they aren't dealers.
voidUpdate•4h ago
In the part 1 article, the author mentions "making tens of thousands of dollars a week" in relation to drugs, which is why I talked about dealing. Obviously I've got no proof of that or anything, so I'm happy to be proven wrong.

Drug charges are difficult. In my opinion, if you are using drugs personally, I don't really see a problem. If you commit some crime while under the influence which could harm another person, eg driving while drugged, obviously that's a different story, and coercing other people into it isn't great either, but if you're just smoking in your own home, its your body that you're altering. If you're selling to other people, that feels a bit more iffy to me because you're affecting other people with that... though I do realise that preventing the sale is effectively the same as preventing the usage...

int_19h•1h ago
When it comes to selling, the nature of the drug also matters IMO. I don't have a problem with people selling stuff like cannabis or LSD to consenting able-minded adults, but given the nature of opioids, there's no responsible way to consume them outside of medical necessity.
BryantD•4h ago
Without judging this guy's current state, he makes it clear in his first blog post that he was a dealer.

"So instead of coming back home broke and apologetic, I ended up pretty deep into this and soon was making tens of thousands of dollars a week, very much unapologetically."

Then, after his first sentence:

"I was left with the difficult choice of either living there and walking to a temp agency with hopes of making $10.50/hour doing manual labor (without an ID or social security card at this point), or getting on a bus to NYC to see some associates, and coming back in a week or so with $15-25k in my pocket and living in comfy luxury hotels until I could rent an apartment... I chose the latter: and obviously, was back in prison after a short 14 months of addiction and misery."

dvektor•2h ago
Yes unfortunately for a long time my whole life revolved around 'drug culture', and so did of all my 'friends' and my entire social circle.

I certainly cannot act like I did not deserve to come to prison, and it's definitely the only reason I am even alive right now. Coming to prison, specifically in Maine, was the best thing that ever happened to me.

JonKKelly•5h ago
That is pretty awesome! I can imagine there are so many others that would benefit from programs like the one you are a part of, congratulations!
manesioz•5h ago
God bless you.
chatmasta•5h ago
How does the compensation work? The US prison system has a bit of a nasty reputation when it comes to exploiting prison labor, so I hope those practices aren’t carrying over into these more forward-looking types of initiative… but at the same time, surely Turso isn’t paying full SWE salary?
laufey•5h ago
Just curious, why would you expect him to be paid less? I know historically pay is bad for prisoners, but if he's working the same hours and is just as productive as any other employee, shouldn't he be paid the same? I could potentially see paying someone less if they were coming in with much less experience than what's usually hired for in the role, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.
the__alchemist•5h ago
I speculate: Supply and demand. He doesn't have many options, so doesn't have leverage in negotiating.
chatmasta•5h ago
Well that’s basically what I’m wondering. Is this a normal employment arrangement - subject to same state payroll tax, labor laws, employee rights, etc - with the additional detail that he resides in prison? Or does the employer need to go through some gateway enforced by the prison with maximum compensation or other restrictions?

But otherwise, in terms of why he’d default to being paid less… yes, what the other commenter said: supply and demand, aka leverage. Turso could choose to be a good citizen and pay him the same as any other employee, but that’s subject to all the questions I posed above, regarding the structural requirements placed on them as the employer.

glommer•5h ago
I am the CEO of Turso. We are free to negotiate any salary we want with him, the prison system doesn't put any caps, up or down. We are paying him well, and certainly not trying to enslave him or anything. There are some restrictions on how the payments are made but not the amount.

We also don't pay him healthcare, because he wouldn't be able to use it.

koakuma-chan•5h ago
I assume he doesn't have to pay rent while in prison and gets free meals, so unless they take some of his income, he might actually be doing pretty good.
wffurr•5h ago
The 13th amendment specifically allows slavery of prisoners.

Edit: I don’t mean to imply the author isn’t paid fairly by Turso. A few posts down, the CEO of Turso asserts that they do pay fairly. The OP in this thread might reasonably wonder about this because several states do in fact use prisoners as unpaid slave labor.

code_for_monkey•5h ago
finally, someone who took a humanities class!
shermantanktop•4h ago
There are dozens of us. Dozens!
code_for_monkey•3h ago
hacker news: a collection of the smartest tech minds on the internet, but only for code!
mkoubaa•4h ago
If I was a prisoner one day I think I'd rather spend my days in slave labor than weird ethno-status games.
pyuser583•3h ago
It's unclear whether the carve out for prisoners applies to just "involuntary servitude" or "slavery and involuntary servitude."

In practice, only "involuntary servitude" has been used. "Community service" - unpaid - is a very common low level sentence.

The eighth and fourteenth amendments almost certainly forbid enslavement - permanently becoming human property - as a criminal sentence.

Even before the 13th amendment, enslavement as a punishment not common, if it happened at all.

There is almost no case law on the 13th amendment. There are no legal slaves in the US today, and there have not been since the 19th century.

tristan957•3h ago
If we pay people 40 cents an hour just to say they aren't slaves, they they are slaves for all intents and purposes. They are put in poor working conditions working for for-profit companies, making much less than minimum wage. How is it legal for the State to not provide sunscreen or shade for inmates doing outdoor manual labor?

https://theappeal.org/louisiana-prisoners-demand-an-end-to-m...

freedomben•3h ago
I don't disagree that 40 cents an hour is ludicrous and is only one notch above slavery, but I do think it worth pointing out that the work for 40 cents per hour is voluntary (i.e. they can quit or choose not to accept the work), whereas "slavery" is very much not.
larkost•2h ago
In many cases the work is not really voluntary, there are sanctions for not taking it. Prisoners in some states are regularly put into solitary confinement for not "volunteering" to work these jobs (a punishment that some areas deem torture). With that amount of coercion I can't see them as voluntary, and so the slavery label is awfully close to the mark.
freedomben•2h ago
In those situations, I would agree that is pretty damn close to the slavery mark.

I've worked with a lot of prison facilities though in many states across the US and a few international, and have never seen that. That's not to say it doesn't happen of course, but out of curiosity do you (or anyone else) know of any facilities/jurisdictions that do that?

TheGrumpyBrit•5h ago
You can make the exact same argument about employers paying different rates depending on the country the employee is based in, and for all the same reasons.

Is there a good reason why a developer in Thailand or India should be paid less than their colleague who works on the same team, but is based in the US? Many companies believe so - there's a significant difference in the cost of living between those two employees, and employers believe it is fair to adjust the salary to provide a similar quality of life to both.

Equally, a person incarcerated in New York City doesn't have the same living costs as a person who has to live in New York City, so you could reasonably argue that any "Cost of living premium" that a company offers to NYC based employees doesn't need to apply to a person who doesn't experience those higher costs.

koakuma-chan•5h ago
> and employers believe it is fair to adjust the salary to provide a similar quality of life to both

That's bullshit. E.g. electronics cost the same in all countries.

dylan604•5h ago
Actually, no they don't. With various forms of VAT and tariffs, things definitely do not cost the same in all countries.
koakuma-chan•4h ago
The point is that they are definitely not cheaper than in the US
dylan604•4h ago
Is that true still? I don't go searching prices in foreign markets, but something like the RPi being a UK piece of kit seems like it would now be more expensive in the US compared to UK simply based on recent tariffs being applied.
crote•3h ago
Sure, but how much of your wage do you spend buying electronics? The vast majority of my salary goes to fixed expenses like housing, food, healthcare, energy, and transport. Those are all highly location-dependent.

In location A you might spend 80% of your salary on fixed expenses, whereas in location B you only need to spend 20% of that same salary to pay for those expenses - leaving you with far more money for discretionary spending.

koakuma-chan•2h ago
For sure, but that doesn't justify doing that per country. If you live in SF you could be spending 80% on fixed expenses, but I'm sure that in the US there are places where you could be spending 20%. This applies to other countries as well.
frakt0x90•4h ago
Except prison has some very key differences from living freely in another state or country. You cannot leave and so don't have a choice about where you work. Even if cost of living is low in prison, you often still have to pay for being there and wages are far less than the cost. A prisoner will be released one day and their cost of living will skyrocket overnight. Do we want motivated hard working people leaving prison with nothing so they end up back in the same environment that got them there in the first place?
tmoertel•4h ago
> Is there a good reason why a developer in Thailand or India should be paid less than their colleague who works on the same team, but is based in the US?

Yes, and that reason is that people in most of the developed world are free to say yes or no to job offers based on their individual preferences. And, it just so happens, in Thailand and India there are many people who will happily say yes to offers that people in the US would say no to. The cost of living explanation that companies give is illusory; the reality is that they have to pay enough to get people to say yes.

Now, you might ask why people in different countries say yes to offers at different compensation levels. But I think the answer is self evident: people will say yes to offers when they believe that there are lots of other people who will say yes to it. Under those circumstances, saying no won't earn a higher offer but cause the company to give the job to someone else.

Ultimately, then, regional prices are set by what the locals are generally willing to say yes to.

ChrisMarshallNY•4h ago
My understanding is that top talent gets top pay, regardless of their living arrangements.

Mediocre talent ... maybe not so much, but these are also the folks that could be replaced by AI.

tmoertel•4h ago
> My understanding is that top talent gets top pay, regardless of their living arrangements.

Indeed. Top talent can say no to lower offers because they are confident that companies are unlikely to find other top candidates who will say yes.

Ray20•21m ago
>Many companies believe so - there's a significant difference in the cost of living between those two employees, and employers believe it is fair to adjust the salary to provide a similar quality of life to both.

What a complete bs. If anything, in India it costs MORE to achieve a similar standard of living than in the USA. In India you can spend 3 times what a US worker gets paid - and you'll barely have enough money to get the same level of security that that worker gets.

Companies don't care, they pay the minimum amount that they think will interest the worker for long-term employment. And since in India or Thailand the workers don't have such a wide choice in work - they will be paid less, just enough to get them. And they pay the Americans just enough to get them, it is just happening that for Americans this amount are several times bigger. That's all here is.

code_for_monkey•5h ago
I guess if you look at pay as solely a result of 'work done' you'd come to this conclusion, and it should work this way, but really its got more to do with the relationship between employer and employee. A person in prison has a very different legal status than someone who doesnt and they do tend to get paid less.
komali2•5h ago
> but if he's working the same hours and is just as productive as any other employee, shouldn't he be paid the same?

He should, but the median salary of engineers in Taiwan is like, 40,000 USD, vs SF which is 160,000 USD. Or London, if one wants to argue something about English language ability or whatever, is 80,000 USD. Literally half that of SF.

Salaries aren't determined by labor value, they're determined by how well employers can collude in a region to get the lowest possible rate while still being able to hire people. Thus they somewhat tend to correlate with cost of living, but not really, e.g. see London vs SF vs NYC. All correlations are used as excuses, when the core, real, reason always comes down to, employers will pay as little as they can get away with.

This annoyed me enough that I started a co-op about it, and we're doing pretty well. I'm still annoyed though. Apparently glommer, the CEO, pays him "full salary" (market rate?), which makes them a good person, but a bad capitalist. They could easily pay basically a slave wage and leverage this dude's ingrained passion for programming to get huge output for almost nothing - that's what the rest of the industry merrily does.

gruez•4h ago
>Salaries aren't determined by labor value,

In a free market, very little is determined by its "value". Clean drinking water costs pennies, but its value is far higher. People in developing countries routinely spend hours a day getting clean water, which works out to a price far higher than even bottled water from for-profit companies.

>they're determined by how well employers can collude in a region to get the lowest possible rate while still being able to hire people. Thus they somewhat tend to correlate with cost of living, but not really, e.g. see London vs SF vs NYC.

Is there any evidence there's more collusion happening in London?

>employers will pay as little as they can get away with.

You're making it sound like this is some sort of profound insight, or that companies are being extra dishonorable by doing this, but literally everyone in an economy is trying to pay "pay as little as they can get away with". When was the last time you tipped a gas station?

Ray20•4m ago
> they're determined by how well employers can collude in a region to get the lowest possible rate

Colluding is only one of the factors that influencing the demand for labor. Moreover, in most regions it is a rather insignificant factor. Typically, this is the degree of economic freedom, protection of investments and capitals, the level of regulation and the tax burden in the region, not the degree of colluding.

> good person, but a bad capitalist.

Capitalism is not about evaluative characteristics, but about descriptive ones. It is not "bad capitalists pay a lot, good ones pay the minimum", but about "people tend to pay minimum, so to pay the minimum is expected behavior of capitalists"

whywhywhywhy•4h ago
>but if he's working the same hours and is just as productive as any other employee, shouldn't he be paid the same?

Why would the salaries all bump up to big American city salaries instead of resting somewhere in the lowest range worldwide? If we purely judge work completed.

If you're a remote worker your competition is the world not people in the major city the company is based in.

blks•4h ago
Because US constitution forbids slavery except as a punishment. A lot of prisoners doing labour right now are compensated literally pennies.
Ray20•36m ago
Because the level of payment almost always depends on the level of competition for a particular person's work. When you're in prison, there's practically no competition for your work. So it's expected that he'll be paid much less.
glommer•5h ago
I am the Turso CEO. We pay him a full salary, just not health care benefits.
david927•4h ago
What you're doing is really wonderful.
glommer•3h ago
I am just blessed and thankful that the Lord decided to give me a chance to help what HE is doing on Preston's life.

I've done nothing.

999900000999•4h ago
Your doing the Lord's work.

Even if you just paid him the state minimum wage, it would stop him from having a giant employment gap.

The next step would be background check reform. A DUI record isn't relevant to anything not involving driving.

Excluding a very small handful of SVU level crimes everything should be wiped clean after 5 years or so.

I had an experience with a co worker who would brag about robbing people, selling substances and when he got caught his family money made it go away. He's a CTO at a mid sized tech company now. Had he been poor he'd have a record and be lucky to work as a Walgreens clerk.

Was the biggest "tough on crime" person I've ever met. I think people with means don't understand if you don't have money you can't afford bail.

Can't afford bail you'll just be indefinitely detained without trial for months if not years.

Everything about the criminal justice system is about exploitation. Get house arrest, that's a daily monitoring fee. States like Florida are forcing released inmates to repay the state for the cost of incarceration.

It's past fixing tbh, I'm personally hopping to immigrate to a functional country soon.

glommer•4h ago
The Lord is doing His work, in Preston's heart. I am very humbled to given a chance to be a part of this.
focusedone•3h ago
Reformed?
glommer•3h ago
If you are asking me about my religion, I am a Catholic convert, after 20+ years of obnoxious militant atheism.
badc0ffee•47m ago
"Militant", really?
skeeter2020•34m ago
I don't read this as he thinks all Atheists are militant, but that his own behaviour was obnoxious? If so, many of us have met those.

It's nice to hear about someone who can change their mind so completely; the trick is not to swing to the other end of the spectrum, trading one absolute for another.

GoatInGrey•29m ago
Militant atheists tend to embody anti-theism. It typically manifests as active desire to dissuade anybody from holding religious beliefs or performing religious practices.

Any clergy, whether faithful or secular, has the capacity to act in a militant fashion.

glommer•18m ago
yes, and obnoxious too. You should have seen me.
Bowski23•2h ago
Indeed HE is! Many prayers are being answered! Thank you!
ChrisMarshallNY•4h ago
> Excluding a very small handful of SVU level crimes everything should be wiped clean after 5 years or so.

My understanding, is that's what the UK does, with an exemption for certain jobs, like teachers and creche hosts. In the US, I think some states have the ability to expunge convictions. Not sure about federal crimes, though.

The "scarlet letter" of a past conviction is a very real issue, and keeps some folks down. People can get past it, though. I know folks that served time for murder, that have very good careers, and people that have misdemeanor records, that have always struggled.

wil421•3h ago
My state will automatically expunge non violent misdemeanors after 2010, so if it happened before you have to jump through hoops.

I know people who dropped out of college because they had a very small drug charge, no use in finishing if you will have a scarlet letter over your head forever.

aerostable_slug•3h ago
That's really unfortunate. I work with people who were formally justice-involved every day and their educations have been an aid to them personally and professionally. A felony or a "bad" misdemeanor (e.g. domestic violence) isn't the end of the world, even in the modern US. People can and do overcome the consequences of their mistakes and thrive.
justin66•2h ago
Different states have rules about expungement, as far as what happens automatically, what can be done if an offender convinces a judge, and how much it all costs.

Federal crimes (and I don't think that applies in this person's case since they're in a Maine DOC prison, although drug crimes of this kind easily could be charged by the feds) aren't usually expunged. Even if you receive a pardon, the original crime (and a note of the pardon) will exist on the record.

It's a really strange system. You're meant to lie and say "no" during interviews after your conviction is expunged if you are asked "have you ever been convicted of a crime," although I believe in many states it's now illegal to ask such a question.

dao-•3h ago
> Was the biggest "tough on crime" person I've ever met. I think people with means don't understand if you don't have money you can't afford bail.

Or maybe they do understand. This kind of politics ensures the privileged stay privileged.

crote•3h ago
> The next step would be background check reform. A DUI record isn't relevant to anything not involving driving.

This is already the case in some countries, including The Netherlands. A background check is done for a specific "profile", and convictions which aren't relevant for your job-to-be don't show up. Someone with a DUI can't become a taxi driver, but they should have no trouble getting a job as a lawyer. Got convicted of running a crypto pump&dump? Probably can't get a job as a banker, but highschool teacher or taxi driver is totally fine.

BizarroLand•2h ago
A surprising number of US states also drop crimes from your background checks or legally forbid them from being used against you after so many years, 5-10 on average, as long as they aren't directly related to the job.

https://ccresourcecenter.org/state-restoration-profiles/50-s...

derektank•3h ago
>Excluding a very small handful of SVU level crimes everything should be wiped clean after 5 years or so.

It's nice to think that people should be able to fully pay back their debt to society but (a) criminal court proceedings need to be public in a free society and if they are public, people should be able to record and distribute the results as private citizens if we believe in upholding the principle of freedom of speech.

Even if it were possible to prevent this, (b) this does a small but not entirely negligible harm to people that never committed a crime by casting some doubt upon them. This is most apparent for minority groups that are associated with criminality; they experience worse employment prospects when the state makes criminal records unavailable.

miki123211•38m ago
Criminal records should be available, but in a controlled way.

Where I live (Poland), only the person itself can request their criminal record from the state. This is a routine procedure required by some employers, you can even do it online these days.

Most if not all criminal offenses "expire" after some years, how long depends on the offense. If there's something you've been charged with but not convicted of, it doesn't appear on the record.

This is easier to implement for us because there are limitations on how media can report on criminals (no last names for example). Even in the US, I think that system could be workable. Instead of attacking distributions of "unedited" criminal records, you'd have to target employers and require them to only acquire the state-approved versions.

bregma•2h ago
Is he paid in dollars or in cigarettes?
gwbennett•2h ago
Bravo Zulu!!!
dl9999•2h ago
People like you give me hope for the world.
tommica•40m ago
How does it exactly work in a scenario like this? Do you just pay to his account, or does it somehow go through the prison system?
UncleEntity•5h ago
/me putting on my Law & Order hat

Why should the taxpayers be burdened by the results of his bad decisions?

/me takes off hat

brettermeier•4h ago
Because that's what a social community would do. But where you probably are, such an approach is falsely labeled as “communism” by MAGA anti-social assholes.
1234letshaveatw•4h ago
false labeling- Your lack of introspection is wild lol
y-curious•4h ago
Ad Hominem is only bad if it's used against my in-group
jrvieira•4h ago
how does the taxpayer benefit from the inexistence of rehabilitation programs?
UncleEntity•4h ago
It's not mutually exclusive.

Someone can both work towards rehabilitation and pay their 'debt to society'. If they earn over what it costs to house them in a Maine prison then, by all means, let them keep the excess earnings. If they earn $100k/year and the state pays them $1.35/hr then there are deeper institutional issues around prison labor exploitation which should be addressed.

I used to have an uncle who was constantly in and out of prison over drug-related issues and he would do all sorts of work programs just to break up the monotony. Ironically, none of these rehabilitation efforts did any good and what finally 'set him straight' was the Three Strikes Law.

esseph•4h ago
Taxpayers are clearly wasting money on this guy.

Sounds like he gets out in 10 months, and an incredible amount of money gets spent keeping him there.

glommer•3h ago
I wrote a letter to the judge to support his early release. My initial plan was to hire him once he was out. I am very sad he was denied his request.
BlarfMcFlarf•29m ago
Imprisoning someone is also a great harm. That harm should have a cost, so that it is not employed flippantly.
lo_zamoyski•4h ago
> The US prison system has a bit of a nasty reputation when it comes to exploiting prison labor

Do you mean for private interest? If so, I would agree that prison labor should only be used for public benefit. And this labor should be part of the sentence.

criddell•2h ago
Setting up an inmate for success after release is a public benefit IMHO.
lo_zamoyski•2h ago
Absolutely. But this is a separate question.
giztu•5h ago
Somewhat relieved to see that this is the drugs prison guy, and not one of the two pedo prison guys who sometimes post on HN with their fake sob stories pretending to be hard done to while concealing their depravity.

In contrast I'm glad to see this guy has been open and honest, owning up to his mistakes and starting to turn his life around and make amends for the harm he's caused others. Well done.

Edit: Please disregard that last paragraph. Just saw the document @bjorkandkd linked.

echelon•5h ago
I tried to hire someone with a drug-related felony conviction to work on a Rust project with me. The guy was awesome, and he was super excited about the work we were doing.

Unfortunately, due to the circumstances of our world today, he was understandably too anxious to move from his current job. He worried he'd never be able to find employment as an ex-felon if the runway ran out.

I felt really bad for the guy.

I wish things worked differently.

bastawhiz•1h ago
Please see my nested reply to his comment, which shows that @bjorkandkd is not only making assumptions, but that his allegation is unsupported by even by the document that he linked.
yu3zhou4•5h ago
A great read, the first part is also worth reading. I’m happy for you Preston and wishing you all the best
0xbadcafebee•5h ago
> I quickly outgrew the curriculum, preferring instead to spend ~15+ hours a day on projects and open source contributions.

TIL from 15-20yrs old I was a prisoner

But seriously, programs like these need to be made available to more people, incarcerated or not. There's millions of people in this country who have basically no access to employment. Remote work could not only be a lifeline to those communities, it's advantageous to employers and good for the economy.

code_for_monkey•5h ago
shame were doing a large push to return to the office anyways
stronglikedan•4h ago
there's a good reason for that, fortunately or unfortunately. the numbers don't lie
Macha•4h ago
Now if only someone could produce those numbers...
barbazoo•3h ago
They don’t lie whether they’re there or not.
GuinansEyebrows•3h ago
which numbers? the property values for big office buildings?
barbazoo•3h ago
A connection which hasn’t been proven to be meaningfully contributing to RTO.
code_for_monkey•1h ago
which makes it worse right?

My take on RTO is that its a soft layoff. You can get rid of a ton of people, reduce headcount, next quarters numbers look good. The other reason? Managers just like the office. Its a spot of manager power, they like that.

code_for_monkey•3h ago
what is the good reason, can you tell me
code_for_monkey•5h ago
and hear i am browsing hacknews at work on monday morning, wishing I was still asleep. Really gives you perspective, I hope you get out safe and sound and soon and things work out for you.
timvdalen•5h ago
The Changelog recently did a long form interview with this guy: https://changelog.com/news/refactored-in-prison-0X1D
b0a04gl•5h ago
what if prison ends up becoming the most distraction-free dev environment. no meetings, no slack pings, no linkedin recruiters, just you, a terminal, and 10 years of uninterrupted focus. kinda terrifying how productive that sounds
mcmcmc•4h ago
No pings, just people who may decide to shiv or rape you
wavemode•3h ago
Nobody gets shivved or raped in the kind of low-security prisons where non-violent criminals go.
mcmcmc•2h ago
It’s more rare sure, but it still happens. Either way my point was that romanticizing prison is a terrible take
rawgabbit•4h ago
Don’t give our overlords any ideas. Open plan offices are bad enough.
financypants•4h ago
Something like prison probably is the most productive environment one could be in. It almost completely eliminates the need for self discipline because it's all enforced.
msgodel•4h ago
If you're not dating anyway and don't own your house outright prison with computer access honestly doesn't sound bad at all.

No need to worry about rent, no need to worry about healthcare, no need deal with all this social crap.

ty6853•4h ago
When I had a <3 year old demanding child I often thought about how relaxing prison would be, with relatively normal set sleeping, work patterns, and in some prisons guaranteed personal space at night with at worst an adult roomate.

Just the thought of maybe being able to peacefully read a book for 30 minutes, at times I almost wished to be imprisoned...

shreddit•2h ago
So two more years to go you say…
GuinansEyebrows•4h ago
this is something you can freely achieve for yourself without prison -- no need to speak this evil into existence haha.
koakuma-chan•4h ago
What are disadvantages of living in prison?
yrds96•2h ago
Disregarding the lack of anywhere to go, and assuming no enemies within the prison, I see no disadvantages.
barbazoo•4h ago
Almost sounds like you haven’t watched season 3 episode 9 of a little documentary called The Office.
h1fra•3h ago
PaaS - Prison as a Service
mlissner•4h ago
Maine's remote work program is an incredibly promising development to prevent recidivism. The amazing thing about it is that it gives real jobs to prisoners that they can seamlessly continue after they get out of prison. Normally when you get out, it's impossible to get a job, and the clock is ticking. This leads to desperation, which leads to bad behavior.

There is a real risk of exploitation, but if it's properly managed, remote work for prisoners is one of the most hopeful things I've heard about the prison system. It gives people purpose while there and an avenue to success once they're out.

lo_zamoyski•4h ago
This sounds good. It is important that we recognize all of the purposes of punishment instead of overemphasizing one or neglecting the other.

Punishment has three ends: retribution, rehabilitation, and deterrence. It is important that you pay for your crime for the sake of justice; it is charitable and prudent to rehabilitate the criminal, satisfying the corrective end of punishment; and would-be criminals must be given tangible evidence of what awaits them if they choose to indulge an evil temptation, thus acting as a deterrent.

In our systems today, we either neglect correction, leaving people to rot in prison or endanger them with recidivism by throwing them back onto the streets with no correction, or we take an attitude of false compassion toward the perp by failing to inflict adequate justice, incidentally failing the deterrent end in the process.

tomrod•4h ago
Rehabilitation is retribution.

So many things can never have full repatriation. The best we can do is have society acknowledge, forcefully, the wrongs done via prison sentencing.

But then many countries go wrong on policy - punitive imprisonment leads to worse individual and social outcomes than a rehabilitation focus.

ty6853•4h ago
One of the most baffling elements of the justice system is how little the victim is involved in the justice. 'Society' should not lord the lion's share of the justice decisions over the victims. Quite often the victim would prefer compensation and release over getting fuck all while the perpetrator languages in prison at the tax dollar of the victim.

Much of 'justice' has been usurped from the victim into a jobs campaign for the state.

dfxm12•4h ago
I think you're confusing or conflating civil and criminal courts. If someone breaks a law, that's generally a matter for the state to decide in a criminal court. If someone was damaged (i.e. if the victim feels the perpetrator owes them compensation), that's a matter for them to bring up themselves in the civil courts. These are separate functions; one situation could be tried in both courts. A famous example off the top of my head is that even though OJ Simpson wasn't criminally convicted of murder of Nicole Brown and Ronald Goldman, a civil court found him liable, awarding tens of millions of dollars in damages, to be paid to their families.
ty6853•4h ago
There's no element of the civil trial I'm aware of that allows the prisoner to be released to perform activity to compensate the victim. In practice imprisoning the perp against the wishes of the victim robs them of their civil awards, either by delay or denial.
cootsnuck•3h ago
No, I don't think they are confusing those things. I think they are critiquing the system at large and are alluding towards alternatives such as restorative justice.
Scoundreller•3h ago
> A famous example off the top of my head is that even though OJ Simpson wasn't criminally convicted of murder of Nicole Brown and Ronald Goldman, a civil court found him liable, awarding tens of millions of dollars in damages, to be paid to their families.

The trick here is to be fortunate enough to have a biiiiig monthly retirement pension that the courts can barely touch, or enough wealth to have already bought your mother a nice house (though I now read OJ screwed that up by not transferring her the title).

https://www.southcoasttoday.com/story/news/nation-world/1997...

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2000-dec-01-me-59847...

tired-turtle•3h ago
Distancing the victim from the outcome of sentencing is by design and, arguably, for the better in a democracy. Crimes violate the social order, not just the victim. It behooves us all to have a system wherein (in theory) the system, not the victim, applies a set of rules to determine punishment, as contrary as that might seem to one’s sense of self, morals, etc. It’s a part of why “justice is blind.”
freedomben•3h ago
Also victims are nearly always emotionally involved, and emotional-based decisions aren't generally good. Punishments would be much more severe if it were up to the victims.

If victims determined the sentences, I expect people would spend a lot more time in prison, way more than a non-emotionally involved and wronged person would think fair.

IMHO letting victims set the sentence would be the worst way to do it.

conductr•1h ago
It'd be such a mixed bag it wouldn't resemble anything 'fair'. I know some people who are against capital punishment even for obviously guilty serial killers. I know some people would think capital punishment is called for if you accidentally dinged their car door.
nradov•3h ago
Most criminals aren't in a financial position to pay compensation. And even if you get a judgment, good luck ever collecting. When a drunk driver damaged some of my property I didn't bother sueing him because he was obviously a worthless deadbeat.

In most US jurisdictions the victim of a crime is allowed to make a statement during the sentencing phase of the trial. So the victim can certainly request release if they want it although the judge isn't obligated to adhere.

bregma•2h ago
You are baffled by the western concept of justice.

In western philosophy an offender is considered to have offended against society even if their crime is of a personal nature. As such, they are tried, condemned, and punished by society according to codified rules. A victim, if there is one, is not really a part of this process.

There is a fundamentally sound basis for this philosophy, including equity (different justice for different people is no justice for anyone), impartiality, and respect for human rights.

There are other philosophies of justice: for example, the traditional "I'm strongest I get the best stuff" or "you dissed me ima kill you." Some are codified similarly to western justice ("killing a man is requires you pay his heirs 100 she-camels of which 40 must be pregnant, killing a woman is half that, killing a Jew one-third, and so on"). Others involve negotiation between victim (or their families) and offender -- which often works out well, since the offender is often is a position of power to start with and is very likely come out on top.

The simple "an eye for an eye" is just the beginning of a very very deep rabbit hole you can go down on the road to enlightenment.

wat10000•2h ago
I strongly disagree. The victim is generally deeply incapable of being objective about the situation. How many perpetrators of domestic violence would go free because their spouse is too scared to ask for proper punishment? This is already a big problem with securing cooperation for prosecution, and I'd aim to make that better, not worse. You'd have enormous disparities in sentencing based on the personality of the victim. Should mugging a vindictive asshole carry a harsher sentence than mugging a nice person who believes in second chances no matter what?

The justice system is pretty far from actual justice in many cases, but this wouldn't get it closer.

tptacek•1h ago
There are (institutional, complicated, well-ordered) civil and criminal systems elsewhere in the world where victims are much more directly involved in sentencing and punishment, and you probably wouldn't want to live in one.
ty6853•1h ago
There are certainly differing personal opinions on what they'd like to live under. For instance, Dutch lawyer Michael van Notten moved from the western to to the xeer system in the horn of Africa, and found it superior in his personal estimation from the perspective of serving victims, as documented in his book.
tptacek•38m ago
A clan-based blood-money system? I reiterate the claim I made previously: while you might enjoy reading about them, you wouldn't want to live under one.
ty6853•26m ago
I don't see it as a binary option. Why can't we learn from one another? I'm more interested in some of the elements found in for instance that system, where the victim can elect to prioritize restitution over retribution when it leads to a higher likelihood they will be made whole. I don't see any requirement that one has to embrace everything about a societies' system to find advantages in elements of it.
tptacek•20m ago
Well, I'll just say, when I referred earlier to institutionalized systems wherein victims are given principal roles in meting out justice, I was specifically using that word to contrast with things like xeer clan law --- a system you just implied might be superior to our common law system (it is not). There are "modern" legal systems descended from that kind of oral tradition honor law. You would not want to live under them.

Happy to keep nerding out on comparative legal stuff from around the world! Just keeping this grounded in "you probably wouldn't enjoy living somewhere where your landlord can have you imprisoned for unpaid rent".

coredog64•3h ago
You're missing a function: Removal. Locking up criminals prevents them committing additional crimes that impact the general public. Data from the last few years shows that there's definitely a Pareto aspect to criminal populations, and absent an ability to rehabilitate, removal is the next best option for society at large.
lo_zamoyski•1h ago
I would argue that removal can be analyzed into the other categories, or into something that isn't the province of punishment.

1. the deprivation of freedom is retributive

2. the prevention of additional crimes can be said to be deterrence of an active sort

3. the protection of society isn't part of punishment per se, but a separate end

This becomes clear when we consider imprisonment in relation to various crimes. Violent criminals are imprisoned in part because they are a threat to the physical safety of others. However, is an embezzler or a mayor embroiled in shady accounting a threat to anyone's physical safety? Probably not. So the purpose of their removal is less about crime prevention and more about retribution.

BlarfMcFlarf•44m ago
The idea is that if they are making a rational choice to embezzle or not (and have other viable options for living), then knowing jail time is a possible outcome changes the expected payout equation. In that way it can be preventative, but only in those specific sorts of cases.
jmpetroske•35m ago
Would love to read into this research if you have a link or something to search
HappMacDonald•3h ago
> Punishment has three ends: retribution, rehabilitation, and deterrence.

One might argue a fourth end as well: removal.

When people talk about "cleaning up the streets" they don't mean causing ruffians to clean up their act, what they refer to is removing the ruffians entirely. To "someplace else". To "Not in my backyard". Out of sight, out of mind as is often said.

For profit prisons may view prisoners as cheap labor or levy bait, but for the voting public who gets no cut of that action the real inducement starts and ends with "make the problem go away". Sweep human beings we do not know how to cohabitate with under a rug.

Retribution may appeal to those directly wronged, or to the minority of sadists in a population. Deterrence is oft admired, but few honestly believe it's really possible given that harsh sentences never seem to cause crime to go to zero (sensationalism-driven media that magnifies every mole-hill notwithstanding) and that repeat offenses outnumber first offenses. Rehabilitation appeals to those with compassion, though nobody has a clear bead on how to actually land that plane with more than the lowest hanging fruit of only-slightly-off-course offenders.

So I think the real elephant in the room is that people want/demand/rely upon removal.

Ray20•45m ago
>harsh sentences never seem to cause crime to go to zero

Harsh sentences work great when used with the inevitability of punishment. It is obvious that a harsh sentence does not discourage a criminal to commit a crime if they expect to avoid any responsibility

nlitened•3h ago
I think there's also a fourth "end" to prison punishment, but I don't know the proper name for it.

It's when you remove the dangerous person from a society for a while, so they can't commit crimes for that while. This is very important part of prison punishment with people with criminal tendencies, and this is why recidivists get longer prison sentences for each subsequent repetition of a similar crime.

Unfortunately we have to admit that some (small) percentage of criminals cannot be rehabilitated, so they must be isolated from society.

ChadNauseam•1h ago
The technical term is incapacitation. (Other commenters in this thread are also referring to it as “removal”.)

For criminals that act alone, variations in the severity of the sentence doesn’t seem to have the impact you might expect it to have on how much it actually deters people. (And there is the issue that people in prison can share strategies between themselves for how to more effectively commit crime, which is not an ideal outcome.) So indeed, incapacitation is a very important factor. When it’s studied, you often see numbers like “increasing the sentence by 10 years prevents 0.2 crimes due to deterrence and 0.9 crimes due to incapacitation”.

I say this applies to people acting alone because, although I have no proof, I suspect that organized crime is a bit more “rational” in their response to changes in sentencing. If sentencing were set up so that engaging in a category of crime was not profitable for the criminal organization, I’m pretty sure they would realize this and stop. This logic doesn’t apply to individual people, because the average person committing a crime has no idea what the sentence is or their odds of getting caught, and they obviously don’t do it often enough that the random variation is amortized out.

dfxm12•4h ago
Do participants get paid a real wage?
glommer•4h ago
Preston was free to negotiate his pay with us, and we pay him a full salary. Just no health care benefits.
dgacmu•3h ago
Does he actually get the salary, or does the prison take huge overhead?
glommer•3h ago
they take an (actually very reasonable) cut, but he is free to take his salary.
kgwxd•3h ago
No cut is reasonable.
jjmarr•3h ago
They need money to pay for oversight. Any time prisoners talk to someone on the outside, it's a potential conduit for contraband or organized crime.
Balinares•3h ago
The exact same is true of people working outside of prison.
gbalduzzi•3h ago
I think it's reasonable to assume an additional risk for people in prison.

Even though the enrolled people are completely trustworthy, doing this prevents untrustworthy people to simulate interest in the program just to be able to contact the external world for illegal activities.

Retric•2h ago
Not really, contraband includes many things that are completely legal for non prisoners to have like currency, phones, knives, or alcohol. Sending that stuff to prisoners is illegal https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1791

List of prohibited items: https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/uscode.php?width=840...

snickerdoodle12•1h ago
You can send phones, knives or alcohol via email or slack?
Retric•57m ago
You can agree to pay for them at a given prices via email or slack. It’s more or less guaranteed that contraband will get into prisons if someone is willing to pay for it. Thus the rules around no cash or phones for prisoners.

Inmates are treated very differently by the legal system than regular people. Thirteenth Amendment: “Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States”

snickerdoodle12•7m ago
You can also do that via a butt phone, which are everywhere.
newswasboring•1h ago
People working outside pay rent. From a third to upto half their salary.
hashstring•3h ago
Why would it not be reasonable?
hildolfr•1h ago
Google feeds staff members and provides rest areas , why are they paid?
Ray20•1h ago
For not going to work for competitors.
borski•23m ago
The government takes a cut then too, both from the employer and employer, in the form of taxes.
esteth•3h ago
Presumably the prison is providing the "office" where the person works from, the Internet connection, etc.
lukan•1h ago
Also food and accomodation ..
snickerdoodle12•1h ago
1) How is this different from any other prisoner

2) They wouldn't have to if they didn't insist on locking him up

bryanrasmussen•3h ago
"No cut" is reasonable, but also "Some cut" is reasonable. However while arguing that "no cut" should be mandatory is reasonable, given that "no cut" would itself be reasonable, it is probably not pragmatic. Therefore in order to best support this kind of thing one should determine exactly how much "some cut" should be.
osigurdson•1h ago
Isn't this largely just a one off situation that happened to work out? I doubt there will be legions of prisoners working remotely. If that future did come to be, it would be rather dystopian imo.
bryanrasmussen•1h ago
if, right now, it is not dystopian, then there is no reason to say it would inevitably be dystopian if there were multiple occurrences, although sure, I expect it probably would be considering what the world is like. Of course I am the last person who one would expect to say it but - there is always hope.
psunavy03•38m ago
More dystopian than people in prison not being able to prepare themselves for a life outside?
mp05•2h ago
Don't you suppose that it's "fair" to request compensation for the room and board if the person is making a "fair" wage?
bokoharambe•1h ago
Forced room and board?
Ray20•1h ago
And also medical care. Literally socialism.
BlarfMcFlarf•51m ago
No. Prisons should cost society money. If you are taking away someone’s freedoms, there should be a high cost so you don’t do it flippantly when another solution will work.
conductr•2h ago
I disagree. The cut should support the program itself and then further offset taxpayer expenses related to housing, feeding, and caring for the prisoner. I could even see a case for taking it as a way of ensuring it was saved and returned at release.
franga2000•49m ago
Fuck no! Lowering the cost of keeping people in prison would make it even easier for the government to lock people up for smaller crimes and with bigger sentences. It's even worse with the privatised prison system that the US has. They already know the "market price" (what the government is willing to spend) so adding "free money" into the equation just makes it easier for them to raise prices and end up pocketing even more money than they already do.

Framing it as offsetting the cost would also make it very easy to increase the cut, bit by bit, until it gets to a truly unreasonable level. And since the person is already in prison and we have to pay for them no matter what, why would they choose to work if the deal is so bad?

Spooky23•24m ago
Huh? Universities take a 60% overhead in some scenarios.

The dude is is prison, slave like conditions are ridiculous, but there should be a healthy overhead.

tartoran•3h ago
Even in the case he doesn't, it's still an amazing opportunity to learn that would lead to a better future for sure.
cooperaustinj•2h ago
Why not just pay them in exposure? I hope you can think about why the proposal in your reply is problematic.
gadders•2h ago
Sounds fair, and it sounds like an excellent programme. I hope the developer's life continues on this new trajectory.
antihero•1h ago
It's amazing. Absolutely insane that people are incarcerated so long for non-violent drug crimes, though.

Turso also looks really neat for small Payload sites.

CobrastanJorji•1h ago
Oh absolutely. Voters always favor harsher punishments or making things worse for those already convicted of crimes. You never get any more votes by pushing for lower punishments for any crime or by doing anything to reduce recidivism. I suspect that a pretty solid litmus test for "politician who is actually trying to make the world a better place" based just on how they vote for lowering recidivism.
tptacek•1h ago
I agree with you. This is a crazy high sentence (15-30). But worth nothing that the fact pattern behind it was also pretty crazy.
badc0ffee•40m ago
"Non-violent drug crimes" brings to mind hippies selling weed or mushrooms. But this guy was selling carfentanil. I'm not saying he's to blame for the opioid crisis turning street people into shambling zombies, clogging emergency services with overdoses, and causing death, but he certainly played a part.
cortesoft•28m ago
He played a lot smaller part than the Sackler family, who ran Purdue Pharma and pushed their drugs into communities. They killed a lot more people than this guy, and yet none of them are in jail.
tux3•11m ago
The Sacklers are comfortably above the law and that's a bad thing, but that doesn't make small time carfentanyl operations any less bad

Evil is a threshold, it's not a competition with limited spots

Sometimes big crime families or notorious serial killers get away with it, but it doesn't lower the threshold for anyone else

It doesn't make it any better that someone else is doing even worse. You don't get to do a little crime, as a treat

BeetleB•4m ago
Bush and his cronies resulted in the death of far more innocent people than your typical murderer. But we don't stop sending murderers to prison just because Bush/Cheney are not in prison.

I've voted for drug legalization (including possession). However, that doesn't mean that I condone all drug dealing behavior.

ahahs•36m ago
Say that to the people he killed selling those drugs. This isn't weed, it's highly lethal pills.
OvidNaso•28m ago
If he killed anyone he should be charged with murder or manslaughter.
ponector•28m ago
Some may say: Absolutely insane that people are incarcerated so long for non-violent drug crimes. They should get a death penalty instead of living on public money. Other countries does exactly this.
BriggyDwiggs42•17m ago
Sure, some people might say that. I’d say that’s also quite cruel, and that there might be a third option that’s better than both.
cycomanic•2m ago
And you take personal responsibility if someone innocent is convicted? Once you have executed someone there is no coming back. Or are you saying you're OK with some innocents being killed so you can save some money (taxes)?
trod1234•1h ago
One of the biggest problems with the prison system in the US is that prisoners are often saddled with the debt related to or imposed on them by their incarceration which they can't pay back.

The inability to find a job coupled with the crushing interest is what leads to desperation, and then repeat criminal behavior.

> There is a real risk of exploitation

Centralized systems always have a risk of corruption when power is concentrated in few people. Those job roles also many times attract the corrupt; and even when you have people who go in with a good moral caliber, the regular dynamics of the interactions may also twist them into being corrupt.

Its a rare person with sufficient moral caliber that can survive such a job (as a guard or other prison staff) unscathed and still be a good person afterwards.

Many avenues of education also do not prepare them appropriately for work in the private sector, and some careers are simply prohibited. For example becoming a chemist or engineer when they have a conviction related to ethics violations in such fields.

skeptrune•4h ago
Extremely hopeful that more prison systems adopt work programs like Maine's
johnnyApplePRNG•4h ago
Speaking of incarcerated tech gurus... I've been really liking what Sam Bent [0] has been producing lately.

If you're allowed/able to watch YouTube in American prisons, I would definitely check him out!

[0] https://www.youtube.com/@Sam_Bent/videos

keepamovin•4h ago
Reading this, I think it's a crime that this guy is not out on early release. The majority of his sentence was for marijuana, which is now widely decriminalized and in some places legalized.
BizarroLand•2h ago
I agree he should be released but using the mail to transport marijuana across state lines is definitely not legalized or decriminalized anywhere.
bastawhiz•1h ago
I do not believe this is true. Looking at the record, marijuana is one of a few drugs. The specific incident that led to his current sentence is related to a powerful opioid. This is corroborated by Preston's own personal website.
robinhood•4h ago
I’m so glad this is possible. Kudos to Turso for giving this man a new chance. We often criticize people for past bad behavior, but in many cases (not all, of course), they deserve a second chance in life, since most of us can change.
studentik•4h ago
In Soviet Union having prisoners do soft labor was called Sharashka. This scales and creates incentives to have more prisoners doing cheap labor.
tiffanyh•4h ago
Very interesting.

I have some basic questions if anyone knows:

a. do all inmates get computer & internet access? (or only some, dependent upon the crime you committed)

b. do the inmates have to pay to use the computer & internet? I ask because I hear commissary is prohibitively expensive in prison.

c. how much time per week do inmate get to use the computer with internet access? (and is that time guaranteed they will get)

d. are there job boards specific to helping inmates find remote friendly jobs that are accepting of incarcerated individuals?

msarchet•4h ago
There’s a link to a post on his personal blog that explains a lot of this
qingcharles•3h ago
This place is an absolute rarity. Almost zero jails or prisons have any access to the Internet at all. Many of the places I know won't even allow a print-out of any information from the Internet (e.g. Wikipedia, Facebook etc) and won't allow any books about computers for security reasons.

Commissary is generally "gas station" prices in jails and prisons.

Some of the inmates I work with right now have tablets that allow music streaming from a small catalog, but I think it is $3/hour to listen to it.

Obviously the families and friends of the loved are the ones burdened with paying for all of these, unless you can get an in-prison job that pays, e.g. dealing drugs is probably the highest paid, sadly.

kaboomshebang•3h ago
Inspirational story. Thanks for sharing :)
h1fra•3h ago
Prison is about rehabilitation, anything else is either slavery or poor politics. Very glad to see this blog post!
qingcharles•3h ago
I've got a lot of experience working with prisoners. I've almost never seen any rehabilitative programs of any value at all. Mostly the programs I see are "learn to mop floors."

I just helped someone to complete a year-long paralegal course and qualification while inside. The Illinois prison system has now banned this since (a) it came with the option of facilities awarding a 6 month reduction in the length of a non-violent sentence, (b) required the facility to allow someone to proctor the final exam.

danscan•3h ago
Locked up, locked in!

On a serious note, I think inmates should have 24/7 laptop computer access with (at least) limited sessions of internet connectivity.

qingcharles•3h ago
The place I was at you weren't even allowed a book about computers, lest you might gain enough knowledge to somehow access a facility computer and hack your way to freedom.

They had a computer lab, but it was only for Mavis Beacon. I found the C# compiler that's hidden away in the Windows directory and started teaching programming on the sly. Luckily one of the nuns at the facility took pity on me and bought C# Weekend Crash Course on Amazon (with the CD) and sneaked it through the security checks for me so I'd have a good reference to teach from.

aerostable_slug•3h ago
For those who might be wondering, facilities/counties/states vary a huge amount on what is and isn't allowed.

In California they teach inmates coding, while in other states all computer-related technical books are banned as security risks. Same with basic electrical work — Promising People has an interesting VR program for teaching electrical helper skills, but in some correctional systems that would be considered unacceptably risky. Tablet and similar system operators/vendors have to shape the material available to the inmates to suit the local restrictions.

TechDebtDevin•3h ago
Crazy to keep seeing PThorpe from Primes Discord on HNs front page. I hope youre doing alright in there.
treebeard901•3h ago
When the Government is so corrupt they can take your ability to work any kind of job away from you without even arresting you for anything, having employment from prison is a real achievement.
josh_carterPDX•3h ago
This needs to be a model for other states to follow. Too often, incarcerated people are left with very few real options to have a viable career beyond some sort of physical trade like construction, hospitality, or food service. And while all of those career options are great, they do not often provide a real living wage.

Hopefully, we see more of this throughout the country!

itpragmatik•3h ago
Fantastic accomplishment, Preston! Wish you good luck and the very best ahead!
jamesblonde•2h ago
The scary thing is that Maine is considered progressive for prison.

My former (brilliant) student developed schizophrenia and tried to rob a bank with a gun because the voices told him to do it. He got 10 years in jail. I think every EU country would treat him for his condition until he was safe to rejoin society. In the US, he was thrown in the slammer.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/irishman-jailed-for-10-years...

Aurornis•2h ago
> I think every EU country would treat him for his condition until he was safe to rejoin society. In the US, he was thrown in the slammer.

From the article, his parents express frustration at their inability to get him committed for treatment in Ireland. They cite the lack of response there as a key factor in his spiral.

Also, the US facility he was sent to did offer psychiatric treatment and the judge urged him to accept it:

> The judge recommended that Clarke serve his sentence at a prison that would give him access to psychiatric treatment and he urged Clarke to accept it.

I understand your objections to the “slammer” but the sentence was actually as lenient as could be, offered the psychiatric treatment he needed, and had an opportunity for him to return to Ireland in a couple years:

> Speaking on behalf of the Clarke family, solicitor Eugene O'Kelly said that they were relieved at the relative leniency of the sentence and expressed the hope Clarke could be returned to Ireland "within a year or two" to serve out his sentence.

sealeck•3m ago
Not everyone is capable of reading an article :)
croemer•2h ago
Great story, I wish this inspired more prisons around the world to follow suit.

For those who don't want to hit Google, the conviction was for possessing 30g of a synthetic opioid "U-47700". A normal dose is ~1mg, 10mg can be deadly (so this was 30000 trips or killing 3000).

The drug became illegal across the US on November 14, 2016.

"Police said they found the drug in Thorpe’s apartment in Manchester in December 2016" (https://apnews.com/general-news-d68dca63e95946fbb9cc82f38540...)

"Preston Thorpe, age 25, was sentenced by the Hillsborough County Superior Court (Northern District) to 15 to 30 years stand committed in the New Hampshire State Prison for possession of the controlled drug 3,4-dicholo-N-[2-(dimethylamino)-cyclohexyl]-N-methylbenzamide (also known as "U-47700") with the intent to distribute. U-47700 is a synthetic opioid that is classified as a Schedule I drug." (https://www.doj.nh.gov/news-and-media/preston-thorpe-sentenc...)

TulliusCicero•2h ago
Wow, 15-30 years seems like an insane amount of time for drug possession. Even if the amount implied dealing, that still seems really high. Don't people typically get less than that for sexual assault or armed robbery?
brabel•2h ago
In Northern Europe you get less than that for murder.
pookha•1h ago
Unlikely...He's an incredibly callous individual that was cutting drugs with a substance orders of magnitude more dangerous than fentanyl so he could drive an Audi and live the high life. Given that they tied several deaths back to his operation, and that it was a multi-state joint effort, I doubt he'd get a slap on the wrist by a European judges.
glommer•1h ago
was an incredibly callous individual.
zaphar•2h ago
I don't know. If you are in posession of enough of a controlled substance to kill 300 people I'm kind of okay with a drastic response. For every Preston Thorpe who turns their life around there 100s of others who will just go out and keep endangering lives like this. I think this is a nuanced topic and 10-30 years is too much for drug possession is entirely lacking the necessary nuance to evaluate. Comparison to other crimes is not particularly useful either without going into the relative harms of each as compared to the harms of the other.
stickfigure•2h ago
"enough of a controlled substance to kill" is an absurd, inflammatory metric. They guy was selling a good to willing and aware buyers and we have no reason to believe he was trying to kill anyone.

He shouldn't be in prison, period.

zurfer•1h ago
Drug dealers should face prison time. They know that they are breaking the law and potentially ruining lifes for their own profit.
simulator5g•1h ago
I really doubt he told the buyers this was synthetic BS, more likely he lied to all his customers about the substance and thus could have killed them due to mis-dosing...
Aurornis•1h ago
> They guy was selling a good to willing and aware buyers

In general, high-potency opioids are cut (diluted) with other powders and then sold as a different product to unsuspecting buyers.

Most fentanyl overdoses are from people who thought they were consuming a different, more familiar opioid. Fentanyl and other synthetic opioids like this one are preferred by drug dealers because it's much easier to smuggle a tiny amount of powder and cut it 1000X than to smuggle the real product.

It's nearly impossible for amateurs to properly dilute a powder like this, so the end product has a lot of "hot spots" that lead to overdose.

Hamuko•1h ago
>They guy was selling a good to willing and aware buyers

How do you know that they were both willing and aware? Just how aware is your average drug buyer on what they're buying and how upfront your average drug seller on what they're selling?

skeeter2020•40m ago
>> to willing and aware buyers

This part is really debatable, based on what we're seeing with overdoses. The dealers (probably) know what they're selling but I'm not sure the buyers do, which even for a legal good would be a crime.

conductr•1h ago
How many deadly chemicals are in an average home? Every time I fill up my car with gas, I buy enough to commit dozens of cases of arson.

Intent matters and there's no reason to believe he intended to harm anyone. I believe it's a crime and should be a felony but this sentence is a bit extreme in terms of punishment fitting the crime.

Aurornis•1h ago
> Every time I fill up my car with gas, I buy enough to commit dozens of cases of arson.

Did you read the link? They also found scales, baggies, and Carfentanil (a more potent version of fentanyl).

Filling your car up with gas doesn't compare. A better analogy would be if you tried to fill up a 10,000 gallon tank of gasoline that you couldn't possibly use yourself, all while having a truck full of matches and explosives, and a map to a building with a big circle around it.

Hamuko•59m ago
Gasoline isn't a controlled substance for one.
skeeter2020•38m ago
the conviction was literally for the intent to distribute; RTFM
tshaddox•1h ago
I wonder what the sentencing guidelines are for possession of a firearm with enough ammunition to kill 300 people.
croemer•1h ago
3,000 not 300 if my maths are correct (and lethal dose)
potato3732842•2h ago
Unless you do something so heinous it captivates the public or have a bunch of priors the only crimes that reliably will put you away for that kind of time are ones that the government takes specific offense to. Usually that means ignoring their monopoly on violence but seeing as this guy is behind bars for dealing and not murder I'd bet he just got unlucky and happened to sell the dose that some more equal animal or their relative OD'd on.
Aurornis•1h ago
> Wow, 15-30 years seems like an insane amount of time for drug possession.

The sentence was for intent to distribute. It's an extremely potent substance. This would be like discovering someone had 30,000 pills. You can't really argue that it was for personal use at that point. They also found him in possession of carfentanil (a more potent version of fentanyl), scales, baggies, and other products. This looks like a very clear case of someone importing high-potency synthetic opioids to redistribute.

High potency synthetic opioids are a high priority target for law enforcement. These are most often cut (diluted) and then sold to buyers expecting some other opioid product. As you might expect, perfectly diluting a 1mg dose of a powder into a 500mg - 1000mg pill form is extremely hard to do and there's a high risk of "hot spots" forming in certain pills (or sections of a powdered product). This results in a lot of serious overdoses.

It's a severe problem right now. Most fentanyl overdoses are from users who thought they were taking some other drug. They might have even "tested" it before, but missed the hot spots.

skeeter2020•37m ago
in addition to the other comments, this was also not his first conviction. They get extremely punative.
IncandescentGas•2h ago
Since the top comment seems to be judging the worthiness of this individual to work with databases after prison, for those considering working with or hiring someone with a criminal record, I'd beg you to consider:

You're hiring the person as they are today, long after any punishment, rehabilitation, parold, probation, and personal growth. Not who they were at the time of past actions.

Having your own mini trial, where you sit in judgement over the candidate, from your ignorant position of privilege, using whatever details you can dig up with google may be entertaining for you, but is tells you nothing of what kind of employee they might be. Your mock trial may be especially traumatic to endure for the candidate, because their side of the story is rarely included in any reporting you can dig up. Especially for those unfairly convicted.

With everything going on today, do you really trust our justice system to be fair, especially to someone who is not a wealthy and connected straight white male?

If you're only willing to give people a chance when you judge their offence to be trivial by your own ethics, you're not actually providing second chances for those that need it.

croemer•1h ago
I'm not judging anything at all. What part of my comment makes you think I judge the worthiness? I just decided to share what the crime was since OP left it out.

To make it unambiguous I added a prefix: "Great story, I wish this inspired more prisons around the world to follow suit."

Hamuko•56m ago
Your comment doesn't seem applicable to this scenario since this is not about "work with databases after prison" or "long after any punishment, rehabilitation, parold, probation, and personal growth". Even the title says it: "from prison". This individual is actually still undergoing their punishment, not long after it.
ArthurStacks•2h ago
No doubt there will be plenty of suckers, like the companies involved, who buy all this and don't see it for what it is: A criminal playing people to try to find a way to get his sentence reduced or easier time inside
bastawhiz•1h ago
Sorry, but this is a disgusting take. Addiction is well established as an illness. It's outright shameful to suggest that someone who is going through recovery is purely doing it as a grift. What you're suggesting is that we can't trust that rehabilitation is possible or reasonable, which is a deeply cruel prospect.
ArthurStacks•1h ago
And I'm sure if you had your way the prisons would be empty of anyone convicted of a drug related crime because 'they and their terribly sad addictions/illnesses are the real victims'

Theyre in prison as a punishment for crimes

glommer•1h ago
Preston has never asked for anyone's sympathy or understanding about his past crimes. If you read his stuff, he owns it fully, is incredibly sorry. He's the first to admit that what he did had very real consequences.
croemer•1h ago
Rehabilitation is great. But you might have the wrong idea about the crime.

It wasn't just addiction. He had enough U-47700 for 30,000 trips (30 thousand). See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44291172

ConanRus•1h ago
Prison Architect ITT
ahahs•37m ago
I think this guy went to prison and realized how much easier it is to sit down and work instead of dealing drugs.