Admire it from a distance.
"Benzene is classified as a carcinogen, which increases the risk of cancer and other illnesses, and is also a notorious cause of bone marrow failure. Substantial quantities of epidemiologic, clinical, and laboratory data link benzene to aplastic anemia, acute leukemia, bone marrow abnormalities and cardiovascular disease.
"...There is no safe exposure level; even tiny amounts can cause harm."
[0]https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/johnsona...
[1]https://www.jnj.com/media-center/press-releases/johnson-john...
I gotta say, your post comes off (maybe I’m misreading it) as a bit critical, given that you seem to agree with the other poster as to the underlying problem (frequent contamination issues).
You wouldn't want chatGPT or claude to start saying that J&J was using benzene in baby powder after scraping HN for training data because we played it loose with facts would you? In fact, we call LLM incorrectness as hallucinating, so would you be less upset if I said that the other person was hallucinating?
> If you're going to sling dirt, at least make it accurate.
Something that might fit your sentiment better could be:
> It is right to sling dirt, but it is important to make it accurate.
There’s a ton of pro-corporate propaganda out there, so the good guys should stick together too.
That would be annoying, but since everyone checks their outputs against trusted sources, it wouldn’t be a major issue.
Please use a better example for the virtues of being correct, there are heaps better reasons.
Funny enough benzene used to be used (a hundred years ago) for aftershave and even for douches. I don't even want to think about what that did to those people's bodies.
Benzene content in gasoline is federally regulated, with any refineries or importers required to average less than or equal to 0.62% benzene by volume
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7918986/
Edit: The EPA limits the percentage of benzene allowed in gasoline to a yearly average of 0.62% by volume (with a maximum of 1.3%).
When an alarming number of friends (all under 40 years old) from the same small neighborhood in my hometown were diagnosed with leukemia I started to look into the superfund site nearby. The pond that is connected to the stream that supplies the municipal wells in the area was still disgusting (with visible oily residue on the surface) nearly 15 years after the company, Congoleum, stopped operations and the plant was demolished. Soil testing some years earlier revealed benzene, which has been linked to AML.
IARC Grouping Levels: Group 1 - We are certain this will cause cancer Group 2 - Probable it causes cancer Group 3 - We don't know if it causes cancer Group 4 - Unlikely to cause cancer
So when looking at something like tobacco smoking, we have lots of evidence that people who smoke get lung cancer. So it doesn't fit in group 2,3,4. So it goes in group one.
For scales that measure exposure needed for negative outcomes, most of the time these are for chemicals that are/have been used in work environments. So EPA (and probably OSHA) has a threshold scale for benzene, but not for tobacco cigarettes. Most of the time, there aren't MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheets) for consumer products like cigarettes.
But really, what is more likely - a person getting cancer from tobacco smoking or benzene? I would offer that tobacco is more of a danger than benzene d/t the easily available nature of it. So in practice, tobacco is more of a danger than benzene.
(I had the impression from somewhere else that his "reverie or day-dream" might have instead been a pipe dream — as in the literal pipe dream (opium?). But I can now find nothing to substantiate this at all so, maybe just ignore.)
EDIT: perhaps I was reading too much into this page from the Golden Book of Chemistry: https://www.slideshare.net/slideshow/the-golden-book-of-chem...
For me, no other story from Chemistry is as fascinating as Kekule dreaming up Benzene’s molecular structure. An important reminder to me about the power of narrative and storytelling.
The answer is probably because the author hasn't taken organic chem and so never heard the story.
When I read a "History of Organic Chemistry" textbook, Kekule and Benzene were essentially the springboard.
https://i.imgur.com/EGyYmkX.jpg
https://www.nytimes.com/1988/08/16/science/the-benzene-ring-...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Nemadji_River_train_derai...
Edit: better link https://apps.ecology.wa.gov/cleanupsearch/site/2876
Original link was older 2005 report: https://apps.ecology.wa.gov/cleanupsearch/document/1509
3.1 Benzene. On the east side of the Park, south of the Play Barn the groundwater is contaminated with benzene. An interim action removed a benzene containing LNAPL that had been discovered during site investigation. The remedy chosen for benzene was an air-sparging/soil vapor extraction (AS/SVE). The AS/SVE system covers approximately 1.5 acres of the Park. It is unnoticeable to Park users except for a small equipment box near the Towers. . An action level was calculated based on MTCA Method B surface water criteria and a dilution attenuation factor (DAF). The calculation used to set the DAF and the action level for benzene is given in appendix 1.
4.1 Benzene. Benzene concentration in the compliance well OBS-1 remains below the action level but above the method B groundwater cleanup level. The remedy, therefore, remains effective. See figure 3 below.
Wow, what are the chances he discovers something with a name like that?
A beacon of hope for those of us without doctorates in physics out here...
I also strongly suspect my mother's Benzene exposures (nurse cleaning lab slides with Benzene and no PPE) led to me battling Langerhans Histiocytosis throughout my childhood.
Benzene is used mainly as an intermediate to make other chemicals, above all ethylbenzene (and other alkylbenzenes), cumene, cyclohexane, and nitrobenzene. More than half of the entire benzene production is processed into ethylbenzene, a precursor to styrene, which is used to make polymers and plastics like polystyrene. Some 20% of the benzene production is used to manufacture cumene, which is needed to produce phenol and acetone for resins and adhesives. Cyclohexane consumes around 10% of the world's benzene production; it is primarily used in the manufacture of nylon fibers, which are processed into textiles and engineering plastics. Smaller amounts of benzene are used to make some types of rubbers, lubricants, dyes, detergents, drugs, explosives, and pesticides.
It's an important feedstock in the chemical industry but it is no longer used directly in household products. It used to be common in solvent/glue/grease remover formulations before the health hazard was widely appreciated.
It's a little like asking "what are the uses of water in chemistry", where you're tempted to answer, "um, everything?" Not quite, but not that far off either. (And with more cancer of course.)
Edit: disclaimer, I'm not a chemist, just an interested layman.
The beans were soaked in warm water then rinsed (several times?) with benzene, which was able to extract the majority of caffeine, and presumably not much else affecting the flavour.
It would have the benefit of evaporating with no residue given enough time, but due to the possibility of residue and the difficulty of working with it safely, decaffeination processes have since moved on.
Quip: Every chemical researcher's #1 need is for research funding, no?
The older folks told me that they aren't allowed to use the awesome stuff anymore.
Back in the days, they would use Benzene for everything, the only stuff that would get the lab floors clean at the end of the day.
Same with asbestos, leaded fuel, and whatnot. Compounds that are perfect for their use cases, yet highly toxic.
Often still known by its archaic name Benzol when I was growing up. In high school, walking by the student print shop you could smell it way down the hall at all times. The chem labs were not nearly as bad because they had better ventilation to begin with.
Plus before my time benzene had also been prized as high-octane motor fuel for early cars back when it was obtained for sale naturally by removal from aromatic crude oils in some refineries. This was not such pure benzene however the significant percentage of impurities at the dispenser acted with an "antifreeze" effect and it handled no differently than regular gasoline below 32 degrees F.
Pure benzene freezes at about 40 degrees F, and that pure of a hydrocarbon ended up being too expensive to burn anyway.
IIRC it can really make a lawn mower cut taller grass than premium gasoline, and scientifically it does have about 100 antiknock rating so it's no surprise.
In German, that's the regular name, haha.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_(chemistry)
So Benzol is not benzyl alcohol.
Edit: this is not what I was expecting.
"The"?? There are multiple.
After I graduated, I went to work for a large PE firm that most of you probably hate, working for one of their subsidiaries focused on energy who happened to have a couple refineries. As someone passionate about renewables, I was actually excited to go see the underbelly of one of the most evil companies. I also wanted to learn more about the energy industry and the maze of pipes that looked like steel spaghetti to me.. it was also always in the back of my mind that those student loans wouldn't pay for themselves.
I started off in IT but eventually was fortunate enough to land a job focusing on their developing new products with other portfolio companies that focused on addressing challenges in O&G. One of the things I prided myself on was spending time, boots on the ground, with the people who were doing the day to day work and learning about what there problems were. This included a lot of escorted trips through the plant learning about the chemical processes as well as work processes, etc.
One of the things I had picked up on was how nasty benzene was, this was widely acknowledged at the time by the company, and not in the typical window dressing sort of way that these things are often glossed over.
Well long story short, one day I'm standing on top of grating resting above a concrete pit coming off a refining unit while they are using a truck sized vacuum to extract the liquid (guess what the truck is called), which is told is an every day occurance. Standing a few feet above the liquid, it looks like dirty water. As an afterthought, I ask "what is this liquid?".
"Oh, it's just benzine"
... taps 4 gas meter that's supposed to keep me safe from anything "well isn't this thing supposed to go off?"
"Not all the time"
Never did that again.
I was surprised it was treated so nonchalantly, but when your job is to deal with dangerous stuff day in and day out, I guess certain things don't raise alarms. I, of course, didn't ask what concentration it was, etc., I just filed a few lessons away. But it's always stuck with me how routine some of this incredibly dangerous work can seem, and how difficult it must be to differentiate types of danger when they're not things that are obviously dangerous, such as having your finger chopped off, or worse, ruining a nice set of steel toes.
Anyway, that's my benzine story.
kccqzy•5h ago
How were chemists in the early 19th century able to determine benzene must be highly unsaturated without knowing its structure? Did they simply combust it and measure the amount of water vapor and carbon dioxide produced?
perihelions•5h ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaliapparat
sndean•4h ago
chermi•2h ago
namibj•45m ago
perihelions•39m ago
I believe it's kali from German Kaliumhydroxid[0] (KOH, what it uses to dissolve CO2), from the same "potassium" root as al-kali in English, from medieval Arabic[1]. (And also metonymically a name for the coastal salt-marsh plant[2] from which medieval workers sourced potash/potassium[3]. I actually submitted that plant to HN [4] a few days ago, but no one was excited about it. They were once an essential ingredient in glassmaking, hence their other name, "glasswort").
[0] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaliumhydroxid
[1] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/kali#English
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salsola_kali
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potash#History
[4] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44128748
ahartmetz•21m ago
Strangely enough, the modern German name is Fünf-Kugel-Apparat, "five balls apparatus". I found that one simply by going through "Other languages" on Wikipedia.
And benzene is called Benzol in German. And gasoline is called Benzin - that word has false friend potential because it seems more similar to benzene. It is also not derived from the name of Carl Benz of Mercedes-Benz fame who used it in the first practical automobile that he invented.
isoprophlex•4h ago
Horffupolde•3h ago
jcranmer•2h ago
The first step, as people have elaborated below, is combust the compound and measure the weights of various oxides, which (after the atomic masses of the relevant elements were settled around the 1820s) lets you work out the empirical formula of an unknown molecule. For benzene, this would tell you that there is 1 C : 1 H, but this doesn't tell you if it's C₄H₄ or C₆H₆ or C₁₁₁H₁₁₁.
The second step is to determine the molar mass of your compound, which requires finding something that depends on the amount of substance but not the mass directly. (In modern times, this is primarily mass spec). Back in the 19th century, this is probably abusing the ideal gas law, which lets you compute the number of moles in a gas given the pressure, temperature, and volume of a vessel. Combine this with the mass of that container, and you know how much a mole weighs. If you get out, say, 77g/mol, and you know that the ratio is 1 C : 1 H, well, the only formula that makes sense is C₆H₆ (which should ideally have 78g/mol, but you might not get the right answer for various experimental reasons).