In an ever-larger Internet with ever-growing bullshit and regurgitated, useless data, social-media-driven madness, commercial interests, the odds of finding islands of naive and purely human interaction shrink by the day. Given the advances of AI, the hope of having a network of "unadulterated" users, however small, are practically nil. Add the fact that most of human affairs are now online - work, leisure, communication, paying taxes, shopping, etc. - there is not even a realistic hope of living without the net.
What are we to do? Do we only have the choice to assimilate the AI-driven, algorithmic future or to become complete Luddites living on subsistence farming? Are (open) islands of humans communicating over the internet possible? Can we connect three computers with the full guarantee they are all being operated by homo sapiens? Will "real-life, face-to-face interaction" become the new frontier for outcasts, weirdos and idealists, just like the internet was 30 years ago?
This is a serious question and request for comments. I do not particularly care to start a discussion on whether AI is good, the internet is fine and I'm being dramatic; there are plenty of other places to discuss AI optimism.
[My favourite tree is the birch. Majestic with its white bark, reminds me of cooler climates. Also pines, with the peculiar smell and the reddish, thick carpet of needles they leave on the forest floor.]
A few days ago someone posted an article linking luddites to the NASA moon landing program to AI-generated furry porn.
The interesting gist is that Luddites were misrepresented then and continue to be misrepresented today. The Luddite movement isn't conservative nor regressive, it is human!
I agree that there's no way to guarantee that you're interacting with a human online.
Optimistically, this could spark a return to the internet/real-world relationship that the author mentioned: "Back then, the internet felt like an addition to our in-person connecting..."
Rather than meeting people online, you meet them in real life and have the option to talk to them over the internet. Just like you trusted that they didn't hand off their account to another person before AI, you'll have to trust that it's them that you're talking to.
The biggest threat to that scenario is suburbanization and the lack of third spaces. How will you meet new people if there's nowhere to just exist? This was already happening to kids, and the pandemic really accelerated it.
Long story short, I think there's a possibility between assimilation and rebellion, but it's not in the suburbs. We need to work for it now, and fast, because the next generation won't have the frame of reference to do it themselves.
For example, let's look at "for you page" style algorithms. When I open Reels, I see incredible musicians, mind-blowing visual art and really thoughtful insights from people all over the world. That's exactly what I wanted out of the early internet, and here it is, an ever-evolving system that connects me with all the weird and amazing things that exist out in the world.
And those people in the world who make this content now have an agent actively connecting them with their audience. Yes, I realize this is an extremely charitable interpretation of what's happening behind the scenes. But often, the content I see feels very close to what the author is describing: Someone taking the time to describe their favorite tree.
If there was ever a "good ol' internet", it's still in there. It's just had tons of freeways and high-rise buildings built up around it. The older I get, the more it seems like you just need to let your eyes adjust a bit to see it.
Edited to add: My favorite tree, right now anyway, is a pair of birch trees in a park near my home. When they leaf out and the wind blows, I sit in the grass between them and it sounds almost like I'm at a beach, which is really nice because I'm about as far from an ocean as you can be on this planet.
One of the best things about the old internet was Flash Player. It was an extremely low barrier-to-entry way for creators (especially young creators) to make games and animation which could be played in-browser on extremely low-power hardware. To this day, there's nothing which comes close to filling the vacuum.
I expect the only thing we actually miss about it is that it opened up a new frontier to explore, with nobody really understanding what it could be, allowing us to geek out on trying all kinds of crazy ideas to see what might stick.
Nowadays we more or less have a good understanding of what the internet is. There is no doubt still room for a crazy idea here and there, but it isn't the every idea is crazy feeding frenzy that we found in the early days.
We don't really want the old internet back – it never went away. Instead, we are ready for the "next internet", whatever that may be.
Perhaps a related question is: How do we bring back that old feeling cars used to give people? The old timers reminisce about them just like those here remember the internet, but these days they're just boring tools at best. So boring that the kids reaching driving age today are happy to not even go near them.
Or maybe there is no going back? Been there, done that, as they say.
Fewer people care to be a good listener. And not without good reason. It's hard. It's hard to be the listener, because it can drain you. Other people like it, and they like being able to talk to (or at?) you.
And "most" people on the internet want to firehose their lives to the world, and then take a break and whip through glimpses of the internet at a million short clips a minute. How much are we absorbing along the way? Who is feeling "seen" and "heard" on the internet?
Now when someone sits down and writes an earnest blog post, and someone else takes the time to read it, and then writes a comment which proves they engaged, overall the interaction feels meaningful, and someone maybe gets a little reassurance they have a voice, and others in the world have a moment to listen.
But both of those things take time and effort, and most people simply don't see enough value in that. Maybe they are too distracted. Too drained from how life is lived, and then too low energy to do anything but consume distractions.
A downward cycle instead of a virtuous cycle. But how many of us are good at putting consistency into doing the healthy things for our body and mind that keep us feeling energized and motivated to slow down and engage?
Going blind to the big data is like not voting in my opinion. I also cherish those Islands but I see it as a place in which you put data which shouldn't be in the bug data pool or at least in a different category and not traceable back to you...
For me the answer invariably comes out as Yes. Mom filled the fridge, homework wasn’t that hard, and I could spend hours upon hours just existing on the internet. Find a new friend? GReat! Chat for hours. Find a new idea? Awesome! Deep dive into a wikipedia rabbit hole for hours. Get an idea? Superb! Spend the next week coding every day after school to make it happen.
Now I have, like, obligations and stuff. The list of fun new ideas and friends and websites to explore is … very long. Not to mention all the existing fun ideas friends and websites I’ve already accumulated that I also enjoy spending time with. Realistically there is very little room for anything new.
So ask yourself: Do you miss the old internet or do you miss being a kid staring at a new-to-you frontier?
edit: Whenever I talk about this with people IRL. “the old internet” is always whatever was available when they were in middle/high school. Funny how that works :)
There are glimmers of hope here and there. I'd say LLMs brought the same sort of wonderment as the internet for a short period, but we quickly pushed them to their limits. They're a bit too much of a product, not the basic lego building block that the internet was for them to offer long-lasting effects. Granted, perhaps they are the BBS of our time, with an evolutionary, but game changing, step on the horizon?
But in the last 30 years, the smartphone might be the only game changing tech we've gained. And, sure enough, I'd say the early smartphone era was just as fascinating and fun as the early internet era. However, by now it too has grown long in the tooth. We really just pine for another automobile/airplane/space rocket/internet moment; something that changes everything.
This rings very true for video games. I cut my teeth on MUDs then MMOs and find myself craving pleasant social environments. It's easy to blame Discord or other social tools that gobbled up the gaming I enjoyed, but I'm old and all my peers are old, and the truth is I don't have 4 hours to roleplay about werewolf vampire monks.
That said, sometimes things really do change. I do get excited when I find a cool hobby website from a passionate nerd, or something like the MMOndrian game shared here a few days ago. There's more cool stuff than ever, but it does represent less of the general web experience.
(Older sites rot less, too; but even when you find archives of somewhat newer stuff, on average the content wasn’t so valuable.)
I miss the old web.
If you sent a DM or group chat, I’d know for certain that I’m meant to engage and wouldn’t just superficially skim as a bystander. Just replying with a +1 would feel dismissive. You’re expected to engage and reciprocate.
This ability to have broadcasted vs targeted communications is relatively new for folks, and I’ve noticed that not everyone has learned to distinguish these communication styles.
Younger generations seem to grok it because they grew up with it, but everyone else needs to learn as they go. If you were blogging back on the old internet and had lots of meaningful targeted communication with your audience, it’s going to be a shock when people start treating your content as broadcasts and stop interacting the way you are used to.
The thing I think we’re missing is long-form targeted messaging like an old-school blog. You could send emails, but that is 100% private so there’s no way for a new reader to join in.
My first favorite tree was an American Chestnut that I used to walk past on the way home from elementary school. For a time there was a slate sidewalk underneath the tree and the chestnuts themselves were a constant annoyance, but the tree was big, beautiful and shady, it made my neighbor's yard look really nice. I was shocked to learn later how fortunate I was to experience a real American Chestnut that had survived the blight (reddit even has a sub dedicated to finding survivors: https://www.reddit.com/r/americanchestnut/). I went back to try to find pictures of the tree and its since been razed. Presumably it died of blight, and the owners replaced it.
My second favorite tree is a somewhat famous Giant Sequoia I found after moving out west. I'm not doing disclose the location or the tree's name because its too easy to figure out where I am. The tree is the largest in town but not by much... it does stand out though. Without knowing its species the tree got me curious. I found out that it was actually a Sequoia! this surprised me because I thought they were relegated to small areas inside of national parks - NOT TRUE! Finding this tree led me to be intensely curious about all the other trees in town- what else was I missing? so I spent 6 months going on morning walks with a tree identification book. I met all sorts of people, and learned a ton about the trees. Tree identification is super hard by the way... I'm still getting my feet underneath me even after all that time. I was able to identify ~30 native species though, which was really cool!
I'd love to hear about other people's favorite trees.
Come the fall, her crown turns gold, A fire against the coming cold. She sheds her robe as others cling— The only pine to welcome spring.
() Never saw one in person and maybe will never see.
Provides no phone number. Smh.
Blog posts are hit or miss but a good one is so much more rewarding than anything else on the internet.
the way I use tech now is mainly trying to get LLM agents to work to shorten the daydreaming process by giving me the answers I need. the thing is, tech is just for building more tech. it only builds upwards on the stack, and doesn't yield discovery or growth outside it. it doesn't make me a better musician, horseman, hiker, motorcyclist, lifter of heavy things, or friend, etc. these things are only the effect of practice.
maybe the response is not so much a kind asceticism where choices of taste in tech or opinion become a proxy for purity, but to ask, what have you physically practiced vs. merely consumed?
WJW•2h ago
All in all an A-tier tree and I would definitely get a new one if I lost this version.