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Bill Atkinson: Polaroids Showing the Evolution of the Lisa GUI [video]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg0mHFcB510
54•zdw•3d ago

Comments

smallduck•3d ago
To anyone who thought Apple simply copied what they called at Xerox Parc, check this one out.
ethan_smith•1h ago
The Xerox influence was real but limited - Apple's team iterated extensively as shown in these polaroids, adding crucial innovations like drag-and-drop, pull-down menus, and the desktop metaphor that weren't in the original Alto/Star interfaces.
musicale•2d ago
Great video (recorded in 2022?) from Bill Atkinson himself, and a nice companion to Andy Hertzfeld's account at:

https://www.folklore.org/Busy_Being_Born.html

CHM seems to have multiple videos with Bill Atkinson. Now I need to watch the one about the Lisa source code!!

mprovost•3h ago
Bill Atkinson, inventor of Atkinson dithering!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atkinson_dithering

nxobject•2h ago
It looks like that these were actually generated on an Apple II driving the framebuffer-to-CRT subsystem of a Lisa.
JKCalhoun•1h ago
Bill mentions a special card in the Apple II. My sense is that these were not interactive — merely static images generated on a computer to get a sense of real estate — and of course as talking points to replace hand-wavy gestures.
oersted•2h ago
I love the Computer History Museum (this is published on their channel).

The museum itself is not so special, but it's run by all these retired volunteer industry veterans that have incredible stories to tell, and they are such delightful and smart people. They were the ones at the front-lines when everything was starting.

linguae•1h ago
Disclaimer: I'm a member of the Computer History Museum

My favorite part about the Computer History Museum is the events they hold occasionally where they have live interviews and demos from legendary figures in computing. Over the years I've been to events celebrating the 45th anniversary of the Xerox Alto (including a live demo of Smalltalk-76 run by Dan Ingalls on a Xerox Alto!), the 40th anniversary of the Apple Lisa, and the 40th anniversary of the original Apple Macintosh. There's also a chance to meet legendary figures in person. I've met and had conversations with Dan Ingalls, Yoshiki Ohshima (who is a long-time collaborator of Xerox PARC legend Alan Kay), Charles Simonyi (created the Bravo word processor at Xerox PARC, became wealthy at Microsoft, and founded Intentional Software), Marshall Kirk McKusick (BSD), David Ungar (created the Self programming language), and Donald Knuth (The Art of Computer Programming, Concrete Mathematics, TeX, and much more).

I'm also a fan of the museum's recorded interviews with legendary figures and the digital artifacts they have, including source code to historical projects.

One of the best parts about living near Silicon Valley, in my opinion, is being able to meet and converse with people who made significant contributions to computing, since many of them live in Silicon Valley. While the cost of living is a challenge (I'm a tenure-track professor who teaches CS and thus I don't have a FAANG salary, not to mention I don't get bonuses or stock grants), it's great being able to be in close proximity to the people who encouraged me to pursue a career in computing.

fidotron•2h ago
This stuff is why I am so cynical about modern software development management. Bill Atkinson wrote QuickDraw, a masterpiece of low level programming, but also had a very solid grasp about what it was for right down to the UX it was to enable, and as shown here how the UX evolved with user testing. These days the idea someone can span that range is seen as an impossibility.
hyperhello•2h ago
His software was so strong, it made the Macintosh what it was at the time, and indirectly shaped Windows and Linux’s UI to either imitate or showboat against it. The magnitude of his contributions to everything we think was normal now can’t even be stated. Apple drifts around more but the products still have a lot of his DNA in it.
JKCalhoun•1h ago
Agree. I hate to see Bill and team not get the credit they deserve. There is the idea (so famously put forward by Bill Gates) that Windows and Lisa (Mac) both ripped off Xerox — and I think that is misleading at best. As you can see in the Polaroids, Lisa took the lead from Xerox but then charted their own course. (Windows, it is said, then copied that.)
WillAdams•1h ago
Yeah, it was an amazing team, and it's well-worth reviewing the stories at Folklore.org --- a good starting point is this retrospective:

https://www.folklore.org/Joining_Apple_Computer.html

He also wrote Hypercard, and I'd really like to see a modern successor which had the attributes:

- stand-alone desktop app (and/or app for iPad on app store)

- simple syntax (block diagramming like Scratch/Blockly seems a natural fit)

- simple creation/arrangement of standard GUI elements (so that localization and accessibility still work)

- being opensource (still feeling burned by having donated to Runtime Revolution/Livecode's opensource effort)

(so basically a modern, opensource alternative to VisualBasic, and yes, I keep asking about this --- there are lots of programs in this space, but none are quite as easy/simple as to have gotten me past the hurdle of download/install/actually try making something/being successful at it, and I freely admit I'm a mediocre programmer with not enough time who is bogged down on his current project....)

bartread•1h ago
> These days the idea someone can span that range is seen as an impossibility.

I don't know about that, but in many/most organisations it's actively discouraged so you simply don't see it. That naturally occurs in large corporations where individuals have very narrow responsibilities, but I've also been surprised to find it happening even in the smallest of startups on occasion.

snowwrestler•1h ago
What? No it’s not, spanning a huge range like this is the prototypical skill set for a startup founder.

It’s crazy to post a take like this on the website of Ycombinator, whose entire business model revolves around finding and elevating exactly those types of people.

skeeter2020•51m ago
I don't get the connection between the skillset of a startup founder and someone like Bill. While Jobs showcases taking something from vision to product, your Wozniaks and Atkinsons solved the countless problems at steps along the entire path of the journey. These seem like very complimentary but distinct skillsets. I interpreted the OP as stating there's a lack of the latter, but they didn't comment on the former.
JKCalhoun•2h ago
Wild that drag and drop came so late in the development: only when the "Finder" was trying to solve user-initiated file copying operations.

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Bill Atkinson: Polaroids Showing the Evolution of the Lisa GUI [video]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg0mHFcB510
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