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Rising Young Worker Despair in the United States

https://www.nber.org/papers/w34071
33•johntfella•7h ago

Comments

pmg101•2h ago
Terrible to read that young people's despair is now so bad that it's almost as high as mine, a person in my 40s
devb•2h ago
I also read the paper and thought "how can I make this about me?"
lnsru•2h ago
I am also there. Geographically I am in Germany. It’s a bit scary to think, that the same motherboard I design right now can be designed in other country 6 hours by car away for the half the price. And there is nothing special about me. The guy elsewhere will have similar education, same skills, same software and probably will be more hungry to work hard.
ipnon•2h ago
Most ongoing social trends in the United States can be traced back to this. When foreigners are puzzled and ask me why is X or Y happening in America, this is usually the best answer. The majority of young people, but not the majority of the electorate, are in a tough or even dire situation, and so they do not have much interest in maintaining the status quo. The result is social upheaval, the varieties of which I'm sure we're all familiar with by now, and need not be repeated.
msgodel•28m ago
At this point they've been so extremely neglected it probably doesn't make sense for around ~30% of them to even try with life.

That's the real reason for the high number of drug related deaths IMO.

lordnacho•2h ago
Well, you can definitely sense it if you browse Reddit. Young people are freaking out about the job market, the house market, and the dating market. I don't mean to dismiss their concerns, far from it. It does seem like we've been making it harder and harder for anyone to become an adult over the past few decades.

Here's the quote I found most relevant to my own experience of work. It really does come down to autonomy. I could be writing the exact same code and feel awful about it, if it were done in an office with a guy looking over my shoulder. If you're young, you're more likely to have this problem.

> More broadly, employers are successfully deploying new technologies to minimize ‘break’ times, and exert greater control over production processes, often aided by close technological monitoring of work processes, which limit worker control and autonomy over ever-more-demanding processes, all of which – based on Karasek’s (1979) theory regarding the importance of worker control and autonomy for wellbeing – should result in a decline in the wellbeing of workers. Evidence from task-based studies of work, and social surveys in which workers report on the nature of job tasks, indicates there has been a growth in job demands and a reduction in worker job control in the United Kingdom (Green et al., 2022) which, presumably, is mirrored in the United States. During COVID, the shift to home and hybrid working, whilst beneficial in some respects, may have exacerbated feelings of social isolation experienced by the young in particular as they missed out on the social component of the workplace. The demise of collective bargaining and trade union presence in the workplace implies a diminution in workers’ bargaining power, making it even more difficult for workers to resist such changes and to alter their terms and conditions of employment (Feiveson, 2023).

AtlasBarfed•2h ago
Good news, AI monitoring is coming!

Maximum corporate dystopia as a training bed for overall societal totalitarianism.

Unions are the only counter to this, as depressing as that is. Possibly overreach by corporations combined with the collapse of globalism will reempower workers.

But robotics and AI may completely undercut that.

owebmaster•2h ago
Calling it globalism in place of globalization or just capitalism is so cringe
saubeidl•2h ago
Capitalism is the problem and the reason for everything you decry. Until we actually start naming it as such instead of using distractions like globalism, there's no chance at improving things.
bloak•1h ago
To be honest, the term "capitalism" has accumulated a lot of baggage and people don't always have a clear understanding of what is meant by it so it might be helpful to use a different term with a clear definition.
saubeidl•1h ago
While that is true, I believe part of trying to establish a better system is spreading an understanding that the current system is broken - you do that by naming it as such and not leaving the field to competing definitions.
reedf1•2h ago
I do feel like gen x was the last generation to be given any significant autonomy in the workplace. I'm a millennial and I feel like I've always been 10 years away from autonomy. It seems the tide recedes as I go out.
ben_w•1h ago
Was Gen X ever given significant autonomy? I mean https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_Space and the start of Dilbert both date to when Gen X were the newbies to the wold of work, and Dilbert in particular kept on going.

I'm just on the borderline of Millennial myself, and people older than me have expressed similar frustrations at various workplaces.

saubeidl•1h ago
> Young people are freaking out about the job market, the house market

Maybe it's finally time we admit markets are a horrible way of allocating resources unless you want to create a system in which some have endless riches without effort and others have endless effort without riches?

Meritocracy claims have always been propaganda to distract from this simple fact.

lurking_swe•1h ago
free markets are just fine. The problem is the housing market in the US isn’t a proper free market AT ALL. The housing “market” here has a long history of problems.

- strict zoning laws (and nimby attitudes) prevent the free market from functioning as intended. Housing is expensive because we make it hard to build more housing.

- Read up on RealPage, software for landlords thats been accused of inflating rents. There’s a major lawsuit underway, focusing on the issues with its algorithmic pricing. Is that a free market? When the majority of landlords are (effectively) using the same 3rd party software to price-fix?

- the US had a few decades of very racist housing policy, which made it difficult for blacks to get housing. I say this as a white man that’s studied this. Fun fact - the US govt used to mark black neighborhoods as “high risk”, meaning banks wouldn’t loan money money to blacks for buying a house. At one point in US history it was also legal to have HOA’s with bylaws preventing blacks from buying property in the neighborhood. I could continue to list many examples of how blacks got screwed, but that’s not the point. The point is whites had a HUGE advantage for decades, even after slavery was abolished. The government made sure blacks couldn’t compete for the desirable homes, for decades. So whites got nice cheap housing. Today the children of those white families enjoy the benefits their parents received, via unethical housing policy. Me included. Is that how a free market is supposed to work? Temporarily reducing competition in desirable communities, letting whites buy, and then reverting the law decades later after prices doubled? Definition of pulling the ladder up behind you if you ask me.

I could go on, but i’ll spare you. :)

I have receipts:

https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/pr/justice-department-s...

https://www.npr.org/2017/05/03/526655831/a-forgotten-history...

https://longislandadvocate.com/decades-after-redlining-l-i-s...

orwin•45m ago
When free-market housing have to compete with non-market housing (public or associative) in multiple segments (not only social housing), it works really well as a free market. For that, you need between 20 and 40% of the available housing to be non-market though.
mschuster91•29m ago
> strict zoning laws (and nimby attitudes) prevent the free market from functioning as intended. Housing is expensive because we make it hard to build more housing.

The fundamental thing is, housing is expensive because the space in the highly wanted urban areas is scarce. Plots suitable for development of any kind of (dense) housing are expensive, so that alone drives up unit prices massively. And once you have the plot of land, the cost of actually building a building are enormous - the higher you want to go, the more deep you have to go so that the building doesn't tip over like the Tower of Pisa, which is even more expensive when the building is in a region that is sensitive to earthquakes, doesn't have bedrock but sand, a bunch of subterranean tunnels or nearby buildings that might settle as a result of digging the hole for the foundations.

And that's just the cost that the developers have to bear. The local government and utilities have to expend a lot of money for all the infrastructure: roads, public transport, water/sewage, electricity (the electricity demand of even a "small" dense housing unit are pretty massive), internet, schools, higher education, general amenities (e.g. parks), planning for shopping and other venues... that's where all the NIMBYism is coming from because that shit ain't cheap.

random9749832•1h ago
Reddit is a dumping ground for venting just like LinkedIn is a dumping ground for bragging. You are going to get skewed perspectives.
Zealotux•2h ago
I'm not American but I can sense the feeling is the same here in Europe. I wouldn't want to be a younger man right now. I feel like on top of every possible struggles they're facing: low wages, low sense of meaning, social media addiction, scarce opportunities for true connections... we're treating them with very little empathy and consideration, they're just "whining", wish I knew how to help beyond my modest occasional contributions.
pif•2h ago
> they're just "whining"

Many of them, indeed, are just whining. And they keep whining without realizing how spoiled they are.

But (at least) a few of them are having good ideas and, especially, implementing them with professionalism and passion.

Sir_Twist•1h ago
> And they keep whining without realizing how spoiled they are.

I think two things can be true at once: that there are many good things to appreciate about the modern world, and that the concerns they are raising are legitimate. There is room to have a bit of empathy here.

Al-Khwarizmi•1h ago
Alice, 29 years old, magistrate, 3,400 euros per month: "I'll never be able to buy an apartment in Paris even though I'm among the best-paid people in France"

(https://www.lemonde.fr/campus/article/2025/07/28/alice-29-an...)

They aren't whining. They have it objectively and measurably worse than previous generations, by a huge margin.

CalRobert•1h ago
That ~€41k is "among the best paid people in France" is a stunning illustration of just how incredibly low pay in Europe is.

Of course, even increasing salaries ten-fold wouldn't help if they don't actually build enough homes.

jansan•1h ago
There is something off with that number. I am not from France (but from a neighboring country), but with 3.400 euros per month you are not among the best paid people in France.
Al-Khwarizmi•1h ago
I suppose she's talking about net salary. Here is a histogram for France:

https://fr.statista.com/infographie/25111/distribution-des-s...

According to that, she's definitely in the top 20%. Of course "among the best paid people" is ambiguous depending on how much "top" you consider, but I think being in the top 20% it makes sense to say that.

PS: and I suppose (although it's hard to find data) that if we look at people in her age bracket, she will be in a higher percentile.

ErneX•1h ago
Those 3400 net monthly are likely around 60K annually gross.
Juliate•1h ago
Not the best paid, but unless you want to live within Paris, it becomes a confortable revenue.

In France, you are considered rich when your net revenue is twice the median. That is to say, if you get more than ~4000 € of _net_ monthly salary (around 61k gross/year), you are rich. This was very easy to reach in the IT industry, especially in the Paris area, after 15 years at most.

The 1% richest (based on salary) start from 7500 € net/month (115k gross/year).

TheOtherHobbes•1h ago
€41k is around average for France. Median is €23k. Median for tech is around €45k. Of course some people earn a lot more.

She certainly isn't "among the best paid people."

But there's no huge corporate health insurance tax, and she won't be spending as much on commuting.

mschuster91•1h ago
> But there's no huge corporate health insurance tax, and she won't be spending as much on commuting.

... and on housing. Even Europe's most nuts markets aka London, Berlin, Munich, Hamburg and Freakfurt don't come anywhere close to the situation in the US.

like_any_other•1h ago
> they don't actually build enough homes.

France hasn't had above-replacement fertility since 1980 [1], so it seems strange their housing supply would be stressed.

[1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1033137/fertility-rate-f...

vladvasiliu•1h ago
Sure, but there are different things that tend to drive up demand, such as immigration and an increase in lifespan (or whatever happened that made the population increase despite below-replacement fertility [0]), fewer people living together, and people using homes as an investment/store of value without actually living there.

Although for the specific case of Paris proper (not the whole region), population has actually decreased in recent years. But there also seem to be fewer people per dwelling. See [1] for some interesting graphs. Unfortunately it's French, but Google Translate should do a good enough job.

[0] https://www.statista.com/statistics/459939/population-france...

[1] https://www.paris.fr/pages/le-boom-des-logements-vacants-acc...

mschuster91•58m ago
The problem is rural flight, across the Western societies. Rural areas have a lot of empty housing, urban areas have a severe shortage that sends purchase and rental prices through the roof.

Defenders of urbanism and dense settlements in general love to point out that it is more efficient to serve urban populations with infrastructure, which is true, but completely neglecting the fact that it creates an insane wealth disparity in these urban areas (aka, those who have housing and those who have not), a corresponding death of rental markets (old people can't move out to smaller dwellings because an apartment half the size costs thrice the money or more, and young people with families can't afford sizing up either), and a massive financial pressure on local governments to build out all the infrastructure that dense settlement needs.

mindwok•1h ago
Society is failing these people. In some ways, they’re given the most advanced amenities humanity has ever been able to offer: fastest internet, the nicest cars, affordable global travel. In other areas, society is completely failing them. Connection, meaning, career prospects.

They’re spoiled in some ways, completely lost in others. It’s important we don’t ignore that.

exitb•1h ago
I can't wrap my head around "society failing people" - society is people. Average person has no influence, not even a little bit, on any of those things. Meanwhile, a small subset of the people have all the influence and they mostly operate in their own self-interest.
mindwok•23m ago
I don’t mean to discharge responsibility. We are society, and the onus is on us to push for a better way of doing things.
Al-Khwarizmi•1h ago
Advanced amenities honestly is a very bad excuse for lack of empathy towards the younger generations.

I was born in 82 so I had the experience of life without mobile phones, cheap travel, Netflix, etc. Life wasn't harder in practice, because you don't miss things that aren't basic needs and that no one has or don't even exist. We had plenty of fun with what we had, we weren't thinking "oh, my life is so hard because I can't choose what I see on the TV or book a plane ticket from a tiny device in my pocket". If I went back in time and had all those things, I don't think my life would have been happier or easier.

(As an aside, the exception to this is medicine. For example, many cancers that could kill you easily back then have now a much better survival rate. That of course does make life much better for people who have such problems. But for those of us that are/were healthy, life wasn't worse back then).

You know what you do miss if you don't have it, and can make your life more miserable? Not being able to afford a home, raise a family, etc. Basic needs, and things that your parents and other people that you know had. That's a real problem. Not having Netflix or a smartphone when it wasn't even a thing is just not a real problem, it was a non-issue, and using it as an argument to minimize young people's complaints is dishonest.

atoav•1h ago
Happiness is more complex than your comment would make it seem. There is no absolute bar you can pass after which you habe to be happy. Happieness is fundamentally relative, since happiness is the gap between where you want to be and where you are.

So one part of this generation being unhappy is thst their life on average got objectively harder than those of their parents. Who hasn't heard the story of a boomer who as a 20-something bought a house from the money made in a job that wouldn't even pay rent these days.

But that isn't all, since happiness is relative the youth today sees a fictional image of what they are supposed to live like every day in the internet and most of them are nowhere close to that. So it both became objectibely harder and the bar moved up at the same time, so if more people whine, it is because they have reason to.

I don't say life wasn't hard in the past decades, but people had the sense that if they worked hard, they could potentially reach a state that felt good to them. This is less true today. Even in my generation (Millenials) many have given up even considering the image of retirement, because our retirement is a value that we know will be sacrificed to the capitalist gods, like the whole damn planet.

hypertele-Xii•1h ago
Thankfully God solves these problems. It's a spiritual war, and there will be losers.
saagarjha•1h ago
I think God is kind of a deadbeat unfortunately.
Juliate•1h ago
Who would, in their decent mind, worship a (all powerful and knowing?) god that satisfies itself with the very concept of losers?

That's not a god you're after, it's a (very telling) flag.

monsieurgaufre•43m ago
God does not exist.
Tadpole9181•1h ago
I'm not sure this is true.

I feel like I am constantly reading about the problems facing young men. Every article about loneliness - young men. Every article about political swings - young men. Every article about economic anxiety or wages - young men. Every article about declining birth rates - young men.

It'd make a dangerous drinking game at this point to take a shot any time the top comment on any piece of news is "young men". Moreso if we take another on claims said "young men" aren't being talked about / cared for.

And this bleeds into life. Nearly every discussion on politics or social ideas or religion somehow hones it's focus on young men.

> we're treating them with very little empathy and consideration, they're just "whining"

And to specifically bring up this part, young men are choosing at an alarming rate to follow people like Andrew Tate and Charlie Kirk. They are becoming less compatible with equitable society and, notably, the women in their age bracket.

The complaint often isn't that they're "whining", it's that they push against ideas like equality with women and those are non-negotiable. And, as a result, they're exacerbating the problem, as those women would rather not date anyone than date someone who actively campaigns against their interests.

This, in turn, makes it harder to be empathetic. "Dating is hard" is true in the modern world. But it's even more true when you just posted a joke on social media that blue haired women have mental illness or a "western vs Asian woman" meme or retweeted some hyper-masculinity influencer.

When this gets talked about and women directly state "I don't like how men my age talk to/about me", people often act like the women are being unreasonable and unempathetic - as if the men are owed relationships and women just need to compromise and see things from the other person's shoes.

But rarely is the answer that young men have a crisis of self-selecting bad role models, putting less (or no) effort into their appearance and education, holding gross sociopolitical beliefs, and not developing the emotional and household maturity an adult woman expects. And they simply aren't willing to change that. What is anyone supposed to do about that, exactly?

thiago_fm•2h ago
Good luck for the fellow Americans that will pay up that 120%+ GDP/debt ratio, with 7% deficits and no spending cuts in sight.

The rich in the US are taking advantage of it, by making the US pay for all welfare while they barely pay any taxes.

If you are an American young professional which needs to work in order to survive, you are being ripped off everyday by just existing.

ericd•1h ago
If you inflate the currency, GDP goes up, and nominal debt stays the same. That’s the government’s current playbook, with its massive fiscal deficits.
darkfloo•1h ago
That only works if rates don’t go up which is probably not a good premise to rely on
dragonwriter•1h ago
If you are in a balanced budget or continued deficit situation, then, yes, increased rates will eventually be a factor (but that's a lagging effect, even then) if you have a sufficient surplus that with the effect of inflation increasing its nominal size with the same real revenue and spending you can pay down debt at least as fast as it comes due, so you aren't going back to do new net borrowing, increase cost of borrowing doesn't matter much.
Gasp0de•44m ago
The only thing missing is replacing the head of the federal reserve bank with a mindless puppet so they stop standing in the way of success (inflation).
saubeidl•2h ago
The inherent contradictions of capitalism are coming to a breaking point.

The constant drive for profit forces capital to exploit workers more and more, creating a growing class of alienated, unhappy, and impoverished laborers.

This increasing misery, coupled with the inability of the system to provide for the basic needs of the majority, will inevitably lead to systemic change. The only question left is, which direction will this revolutionary potential go?

Only through class consciousness can we build a new society in which the fruits of labor are enjoyed by us all.

rf15•1h ago
Absolutely. As history shows though, you can't keep that last state particularly stable, so we will always have times of equality, times of oppression/exploitation and times of killing today's flavour of nobility, ad infinitum.
CalRobert•2h ago
The actual PDF is at https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w34071/w340...

From the conclusion:

(I paraphrase) Mental Health has worsened rapidly in the last decade in the US, especially for young women.

It goes on:

""" It does not appear that the declining mental health of young workers is driven by a decline in the

youth wage compared to the wage of older workers; this ratio has increased. Real wages have also

been on the rise. As Feiveson (2024) has noted the relative prices of housing and childcare have

risen. Student debt is high and expensive. The health of young adults has also deteriorated, as

seen in increases in social isolation and obesity. Suicide rates of the young are rising. Moreover,

Jean Twenge provides evidence that the work ethic itself among the young has plummeted. Some

have even suggested the young are unhappy having BS jobs.

There is a good deal of supporting evidence from a variety of surveys including from Pew, the

Conference Board and Johns Hopkins on the parlous state of young worker well-being in the USA

that we documented here. The concern is that we are observing the consequences of past well-

being shocks. We should note that 10.1% of workers aged 20 in 2023 said they were in despair.

They were aged 17 when COVID lockdowns were implemented in 2020. They were 10 years old

in 2013 as the smartphone and the internet exploded. In addition, of course, they were in high

school ages 14-18 in 2017-2021. We know from the Youth Risk Behavior Survey that the well-

being of high school students deteriorated sharply around that time.15

Jean Twenge suggested to us that an explanation for this, maybe that childhood and teenage years

with low levels of in-person interaction and more time online, such as have occurred since 2014

or so, results in depression and pessimism and dissatisfaction across many domains (including

work). Social media glamorizes others' lives plus online news and social media encourage

pessimism about jobs and the economy in general. This likely results in dissatisfaction across

many domains, perhaps especially work. With an additional side element perhaps of "the whole

system is rigged anyway, so why try?"

This rise in despair/psychological distress of young workers may well be the consequence of the

mental health declines observed when they were high school children going back a decade or more.

Increasing access to the internet and smartphones seem to be the culprits. """

javcasas•1h ago
> Some have even suggested the young are unhappy having BS jobs.

That is such crazy level of spin it would make electrons orbiting atoms ashamed.

So the young are expected to be happy to waste their life doing something they know is even less than worthless so that they can afford to survive.

That is pure "let them eat cake", "children yearn for the mines" pure raw unadultered bullshit.

brcmthrowaway•1h ago
Has anyone looked up a HNer earning over $1mn posts from 10 years ago to see if they expressed the same despair?
recsv-heredoc•1h ago
As in all things, there will be winners and those who fail to try with sufficient determination :)

For those with the means to do so, try hire the Gen-Zs out there who want to succeed despite the circumstances - especially the ones skipping college. They’re some of the most capable, self-motivated people you will ever have the chance to work with!

saubeidl•1h ago
This individualization of systemic failure is not seeing the forest for the trees.
abyssin•1h ago
Could the cynicism of some also be a byproduct of the circumstances?
TheOtherHobbes•1h ago
Societies fail too. Not just individuals.

Some people are too absorbed in their own selfishness to see this. But as an individual you can do all the "right" things and still be casually steamrollered by larger social trends and pressures.

saagarjha•1h ago
Most "Gen-Zs" want to succeed despite the circumstances. Unfortunately for them, there are the circumstances.
r_lee•1h ago
Same thing in Europe, there's a lot of hopelessness.
bananapub•1h ago
another side to this is how it's encouraging people to believe that the only way to get ahead is by more or less scamming. you can easily look at the world as a youngish person and see that getting ahead means affiliate marketing, or NFT scams, or crypto nonsense, or being Andrew Tate, or an "influencer" hawking crap on social media etc.

it's not just a lack of role models, it's also the way current governments in the west are setting policies - extreme care for older more established people or the already rich, while the young being thrown to the wolves with idiotic LLM/AI policies sabotaging their lives and careers, future pension likely clearly going down, the ultrawealthy having increasingly literal impunity, policies designed to keep housing unaffordable, etc

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https://deluisio.com/networking/unifi/2025/08/03/everything-you-need-to-know-about-unifi-os-server-before-you-waste-time-testing-it/
70•codydeluisio•14h ago•8 comments

Poorest US workers hit hardest by slowing wage growth

https://www.ft.com/content/cfb77a53-fef8-4382-b102-c217e0aa4b25
154•hhs•10h ago•230 comments

Learnable Programming (2012)

https://worrydream.com/LearnableProgramming/
41•kunzhi•12h ago•7 comments