I guess the fact people come with PCs and printer is a way to demonstrate how they don't want this part of US culture and would like to keep theirs. So either adapt and start offering PC bang in South Korea or go home.
How?
So this is a decision by a Korean company, not an American one.
https://stories.starbucks.com/asia/stories/2021/starbucks-tr...
https://www.vice.com/en/article/worlds-first-ever-cyber-cafe...
I can't remember the name of it now but back in 2010s there was an 'OK' managed drop-in office space you could rent for £10 a day in central London - which came with free coffee and printing - I haven't looked at the prices lately.
I was working from cafes in London at that time, and I would have loved to find a place like that. I had to either use actual cafes (free besides getting a coffee and maybe a sandwich, limited privacy and security) or pay for a dedicated space, generally with too much tedious bureaucracy. Maybe I misremember, but to get prices as low as £10/day I think you had to commit to a large number of days per month. I don't recall anyone offering low prices a la carte.
Prior to that time we had been paying £330 a month for a desk on Dean Street Soho - but that was a monthly rolling contract as you say, and we'd just moved to some free space in Farringdon, where a friend was letting us use a desk (I think in part to make their office look busier).
There was a drop in place in East London that offered similar day prices back in 2010, as I went to look around it - but it was too noisy for me - was walking distance to the Silicon Roundabout - but I can't remember what it was called.
A friend of mine seemed to manage to join nice clubs early on good terms (and low costs), and ran a mobile advertising business for a good few years without ever having a proper office space - just working from home then the clubs as needed for meetings etc. But his line of work seemed rather boozy.
I can recount hilarious and even heartwarming stories; turns out that having a cafe (i.e. leisure space) with computers used by people in close proximity makes for dynamics and interactions that you cannot recreate with remote connections.
The only thing this article mentions is that Starbucks prohibits people of bringing stuff that would take up more than a single seat, which seems reasonable?
Personally printing should be banned. The amount of paper waste we create disgraceful.
Also, I have long subscribed to Tufte's "supergraphic" methodology, when giving presentations.
About time they evolved to the next level then.
My point still sticks. Paper waste is a large impact to climate change. We shouldn't be using paper anymore, why do we proceed to waste such as by printing out email's?
It's old fashion and no longer serves purpose in the 1st world countries.
Why we still use paper I do not know, I don't. Tell me what for and why it can't be digital.
Re watching this, at about 1:16 one of the agents looks familiar. "Huh, she looks kinda like Aubrey Plaza". Then the credits come on: It was actually Aubrey Plaza.
The large items policy still makes sense, though
"Got a flat black and white parking ticket appeal form for Kim"
- Sauron.
- Sharon it is.
It kinda works, but the printouts are very faint.
I was expecting it to clog immediately (the jets are ~10um), but it didn't.
Most coffee shops where I live (London, UK, specifically out in West London) are at best 20% full through most of the day, that's a lot of dead real estate not paying for itself.
When I tried working out of coffee shops a bit some years ago the "etiquette" seemed to be ~1 drink/hour to pay for your seat. I don't like coffee that much, so was consuming more like 0.66/hour (i.e. around 2 drinks every 3 hours), and people were fine with that, as it was effectively a rent payment of £20/day, or £100/week, which is a little under what a hotdesk would cost me in the same area but with a lot more flexibility (never pay for idle!), and of course its good margin sales for them.
Of course, they could just say "no laptops". There's a pub chain in the UK that did that (Sam Smith's - no screens, no swearing), but the rule is not widely followed or enforced and where it is the pubs are empty far more than the ones that welcome customers.
I mean, I went to one in SOHO and it was packed and indeed, no one was on their phone and people were being actively told off if they used a phone. That was nice. The fact that I paid £9 for a pint was much less nice though.
For a busy cafe that's always short on seating and struggles to keep up with fulfilling orders, they want nothing to do with laptop squatters.
Every other case I imagine it's desirable to have at least some regulars presumably employed enough to be working from a cafe using modern tech.
One common problem I've noticed is van lifers and other quasi homeless folks spending ~zero money stinking up the place just for the free power and internet.
Now that battery life and cell-tethered internet is so good, some of my favorite urban cafes have adopted a no-outlets no-wifi approach, while still having tons of seating and allowing folks to be present with their computers all day. They just have to provide their own internet and power, which serves to exclude the true parasites while selecting for folks with $$ to spend because they have state of the art gadgets with their own unlimited data plans.
A desktop is both cheaper (at the same spec), while being much more durable due to being upgradable and reparable.
Sure laptop win in terms of portability, but since we can do so much on our phone, I don't really feel the need to bring a computer with me everywhere.
I've had mine about ten years and it's still on the original CPU and mobo and PSU I think. I've probably saved a few hundred bucks from not buying another whole computer. It might not be as fast as a new laptop but it has more RAM and storage than most.
If I want to go into LLM stuff I will buy a newish used GPU for it. If the CPU is a bottleneck then I'll get a new mobo but I won't need a new chassis or PSU maybe ever. And the hard drives just rotate as I buy bigger ones
- Too small
- too loud
- too hot
- too few ports
- fake performance (good luck with your 105W "5090")
- OS confusion about active screen, keyboard and mouse (how many times have I experienced that only the built-in keyboard works during booting, or the OS showing the login screen on only the built-in screen),
- most of them have to be open or have ports in awkward places, and take up space comparable to a desktop.
Because you get a beast of a machine for the price of MacBook Air, and because you prefer looking at a big ultrawide monitor instead of alt-tabbing like crazy on a 13" screen, and you prefer a full keyboard and a proper mouse to the cramped layout they stuff in laptops because there's no room.
Oh, and maybe a proper sound system.
And it can also double as a NAS (more physical space for storage) and home server.
Not everyone needs portability all the time. For when I do, I have a Thinkpad I can get by with, with Tailscale VPN so it has access to the workstation.
(for anyone curios, yes, it's still cheaper than top-of-the-line laptop + nas/home server combo, but my main reason is ergonomics).
Devil's advocate, but it can't if it's in Starbucks ;)
There's far cheaper workstations out there than Macbooks, especially if you're running Linux on them.
I have a VPN so all its resources are available in a Starbucks via ssh and/or RDP.
This one was a custom build with maxed ram, heaps of storage, a modest Nvidia card with as much VRAM as possible without breaking the bank, etc.. stuff I personally needed. A cheap workstation (or a much more expensive Mac) won't have that exact combo.
So aside from ergonomics, it's also customizability to my idiosyncratic wants and needs.
Laptop price disadvantage can even flip when buying used due to cheaper shipping.
Laptops can't hold as many internal devices nor the fastest parts and have worse thermals/sound though.
I do need the CPU performance, that computer is used to compile C++ code. The RAM is for local LLMs - not fast enough to be practical most of the time tbh, but I like to experiment anyway.
It certainly won't be cheap though!
I never understood why people who are frugal would go to Starbucks in Korea to work, when local chains are beside them, have cheaper drinks and their desk/chair setups are less hostile to working.
>GPT estimates (...)
(0.5 kwhr) * (20 cents/kwhr) = 10 cents. With an additional 10-15% due to charging system inefficiencies (lost to heat). 11 cents.
It can be good exercise to do an 8th grade level word problem every now and then.
You could google those…but it seems easier to just use GPT if you’re going to google that stuff anyway.
Either way, we don't know, and the original commenter doesn't know either, because they didn't google anything about e-bike battery sizes or their local electricity prices and thus didn't take the opportunity to actually learn something.
I did learn how simple the cost calculation is though (capacity * $/KWh), thanks.
How about charge separately for each? I get that it would be awkward to try, but why not.
Maybe the price of a coffee is exactly what people are willing to pay for a seat, a small table, and wifi for some hours.
But then again, I find working in coffee shops too distracting, so work from home and randomly popping into a coworking space now and then.
If you work on the kitchen table and that’s where you play, also, the mind and body have hard times disengaging from work.
Are they supposed to set up their development environment each time?
After university, the most I miss is the actual places that are mine to use and are made for hanging around or working and not necessarily consuming anything.
Traditionally it's the other way around, the drink is a by-product of a public house where people can gather. Could you imagine a bar where people are just supposed to drink and leave?
Some houses were open to the public ("public houses," "pubs") where anyone could walk in and grab a drink and a bite, and usually even a bed for the night.
Yes.
That is what a "bar" was invented to do. In the old public house, patrons would remain seated and the alcohol was brought to them. A heavy drinker would drink until they couldnt walk, but would still occupy a chair. Then the "bar" was invented. Patrons now come to the alcohol and will generally depart before becoming legless. A single bartender can now dish out far more alcohol per hour than any table server. That didnt exist as a concept until a couple hundred years ago.
Proper sushi "bars" follow the same pattern. You eat solo, often with curtains between individual patrons. You eat fast. Then you leave. You dont hang around for a chat.
You just pre-paid for the consumption in your tuition fees.
You can go back to university.
given the OP nickname is mrtksn, I presume he is a Turkish person. There are many public (ie. govt. funded) universities in Turkey. Except various touristic places in Istanbul, it would also be possible to "hangout" for an hour in many of smaller cities. Obviously this is degrading as the cities are getting more crowded. Although, most shopping malls having food-court with a "public" area. (ie. An area that belongs to none of the food places, but the shopping mall itself) You could just coast there from 10am in the morning until 10pm in the evening, with free-wifi and no drinks.
Similarly, in Europe, some coffee shops kind of span to the street benches or the window-side seating. For the window-side (outside), you may not be able to sit there for an hour or so, but definitely coastable about 30 minutes. (ie waiting for someone). Meanwhile, public areas are always free-for-all, if the WIFI works, then for sure you can coast all day...
And if you’re near a college, you can become a donor and known to the school and be polite and gain access to the public areas.
proudly serving Starbucks coffee
another thing is, if the space gets full, people get out anyway, but chance to buy stuff.
for example, let's see there are 2 empty tables right now, you get in to the line, there are 6 people in the queue. imagine 3 of them somewhat occupies the those 2 empty tables, even if you resign the idea of getting coffee, i guarantee you that at least 1 of the other 2 would still get coffee but just move to a nearby park or bench. which starbucks obviously does not pay the rent for...
when people feel entitled to take up 2 spaces for hours while families roam for seats is when it's too far
either pay with points, or get a cheaper rate for points, or even get points if you pay normal for the cowirking space
the card could also double as a validator, either for the reserved space or as a key card to a closed one, saving on in-store admin work
if i were starbucks, i would 100% try this
clearly there is a demand for quick and informal working space, instead of a formal, multi month tenant agreement with one limited provider
just go to any store location, and in case of need, pay an hourly rate with your coffee to get a seat
> if i were starbucks, i would 100% try this
which is why you _are_ not starbucks
—
imagine the multitude of laws and regulations in multitude of countries, if you offer co-working space, then you must also register as a landlord, handle mails (not the electronic ones, physical mails), business registrations, etc.
there will be people who would want to stay in after-hours, even if the store is not open. obviously they are paying the rent, hence they have the right to do so.
people will reserve tables/seats, what happens if it's over-booked? there are certain "cool" locations which are extremely busy hot-spots meanwhile others are pretty chill...
Incidentally, back when I was doing startups, there were free coworking spaces in the under-utilized portions of the Seattle convention center. Big, squishy chairs, fast wifi, and power ports galore.
It was like a self-service micro tech incubator, and helped me bootstrap a company that lasted over a decade. The State of Washington more than got its money back in taxes.
I imagine it requires a bit more capital investment and knowhow; I get the feeling that franchisees don’t have a lot of freedom.
Some Korean coffee shops should try this though!
Once you’re judgement proof do whatever you want.
you get your shit back together you're gonna feel that misery real fast when they start garnishing wages.
Maybe its easier just to build more housing.
There's very few people homeless because they can't afford it even despite the insane rent prices. Usually it's a ton of untreated mental issues and/or drug addiction.
Building more houses will help regular people a ton but not the homeless. More shelters will. Good and affordable mental healthcare too. But that's "communism" so I guess that won't fly in MAGA America.
But in Europe I've mainly seen people with mental/drug issues and those from fringe groups like gypsies. There have been plenty of projects involving giving them housing for free, but it never works. The neighborhood quickly becomes a no-go area with constant police presence. They sell all the inventory for drugs, flats become dirty and infested etc.
There's a reason these people are homeless and that has to be solved first.
But if regular people are homeless then the system is really failing them on basic welfare :(
If this is common for regular people in the US then the system is really letting them down and I'm starting to understand why people vote for Trump (though I'm sure this will only make things worse for them)
I expect you are correct about the votes for Trump. Voting for change without understanding if that change is likely to be good or bad. Public policy issues are complex and most people probably don't have the time or energy to understand exactly what they are voting for.
Prisoners can pay for their share by providing their labor.
"They earn, on average, between 13 cents and 52 cents per hour nationwide. " https://www.aclu.org/news/human-rights/captive-labor-exploit...
Uhh as opposed to some private business that should just, what, deal with it? Who else should be responsible for solving homelessness if not the public?
Prison is the worst way for the public to solve this problem.
It’s more expensive (incarceration is extremely expensive), eliminates the possibility of the individuals being productive, introduces them to people who will push them towards more crime (not just the apparent “crime” of not being able to afford a shelter), etc.
Maybe, just maybe we dont have to throw our hands up in the air and say theres nothing to do while we allow a small group of people to make our cities unlivable.
If you don't believe me, try selling a luxury good targeting a rich buyer on FB Marketplace and see if you can set the pricing arbitrarily high.
There's also a cultural factor at work. Allowing a relative to be homeless causes loss of face so family members feel more obligated to pitch in and help them out, sometimes to the extent of providing a free room. (I'm stereotyping a bit here but it's generally true.)
Russia has a similar system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resident_registration_in_Russi...
> Maybe its easier just to build more housing.
Maybe instead of letting a George Carlin joke from 30 years ago become reality by calling them something different, patting ourselves on the back, then delegating responsibility to whoever's not building houses and subsequently (often) protest the construction of those houses, we should accept that the public is and should be on the hook for them. If not, then we're just a bunch of pathetic individualists who haven't realized the social safety around them is about as strong as cheap wet toilet paper.
Living somewhere is not on its own a contribution to society, and building more housing is not enough to uplift people out of severe fentanyl or meth addiction; people on the street are not having conversations about esoteric zoning policies and hoping studio apartments stay at only $2500/m because supply increased marginally quicker over the next 10 years while birth rates dropped and immigration slowed.
Supply is an issue, but it's often a red herring. Homeless people are the public, we are the public, blight and suffering within society is society's issue, not just when the Olympics roll around or the leader of a major foreign nation rolls up
For reference, a Commodore PET weighs about 25 pounds, and is the size of a toilet bowl.
Double all that if you want to use a floppy disk.
It reminds of the observation that some people will go to great lengths to avoid the metric system.
How about a soldering station?
Or a desktop scanning electron microscope?
They’re used as background dressing but they’re also available to use. It’s criminally underused and i’d love to do it but i have no idea what i would make with it.
Also, great for organizers for drawers, tools, etc.
I've always wondered why NYC and other big cities don't do this. It costs so little, yet makes it much easier to park where you live.
Surprisingly they charge $190/yr per car for this.
Don't feel too bad. In Chicago, it's a $30 optional add-on to the annual sticker that everyone has to buy whether they park on the street or keep the car in a garage. The annual sticker cost is based on the weight of the vehicle; it can run from $100 to $500 per year.
Maybe my view is too European, but why would you subsidize car ownership in a city?
It is designed and completely controlled by a for profit corporation for the purpose of making profit.
In the case of the coffee shop concept, I’d speculate since there’s not hundreds or thousands of years of history in Korea to establish a proper protocol for what is acceptable to do in a coffee shop, anything goes. Until Starbucks can establish from an early age that coffee drinking as the only culturally appropriate thing you should be doing in a coffee shop, and you may feel morally corrupt, be socially ostracized, or go to hell for your sins otherwise
i had thought that the accepted protocol for making a cafe a working space is to purchase at least one item on the menu per hour.
.. says the caption under a Getty image which shows no such thing! No wonder people don't respect the media.
The only reason I would click on this sort of thing would be to see a video or image of Koreans bringing their desktops and printers to a Starbucks and setting them up.
Without that, I can imagine it just fine without relying on any words in the article.
Searching YouTube, I'm not able to find any videos footage of people with desktops that they brought to a Starbucks in South Korea. The story is circulating and there are various new stories in various languages from various news networks, but all have only generic footage unrelated to the story.
I found this 17-year-old prank video (not Koreans): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKEeHREK2nQ
One 7-year-old video (likewise): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBRkRZzCeTo
Ho-hum content. They brought a computer, set it up and sat down.
I'm guessing this Korea thing was probably a very small number of people in specific locations (possibly pranksters) and not a national trend.
It's relatively quiet (as food courts go). For a while, the café even offered a whole day's worth of coffee for a reasonable price.
What I don't get is why the increasingly empty malls in my state don't incentivise this more. At the very least they'd earn something from parking and some food and drinks.
pstuart•5mo ago
worthless-trash•5mo ago
SparkyMcUnicorn•5mo ago
pstuart•5mo ago
recursivecaveat•5mo ago
iojcde•5mo ago
bryanhogan•5mo ago
Oreb•5mo ago
pstuart•5mo ago
Maybe that's already a thing; my sense of self is not dependent upon being "right" in this matter.
arkh•5mo ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC_bang
philipallstar•5mo ago
EE84M3i•5mo ago
Most have a selection of plans to choose from: hourly, daily, monthly, etc
I chose a bit more upscale one without a fixed seat. I pay ¥1100 (7.5 USD) I think for each day I use it, with a monthly minimum spend of ¥2200. It comes with free mediocre coffee/tea. It is consistently clean and library quiet as people follow the posted rules including minding the volume of their typing and headphones.
I would be surprised if the situation in Seoul was significantly different.