frontpage.
newsnewestaskshowjobs

Made with ♥ by @iamnishanth

Open Source @Github

fp.

Open in hackernews

We Politely Insist: Your LLM Must Learn the Persian Art of Taarof

https://arxiv.org/abs/2509.01035
45•chosenbeard•10h ago

Comments

pinkmuffinere•3h ago
I’m half Persian, and am relatively immersed in middle eastern culture still, but I sincerely wonder how I would perform on the benchmark too!
metalman•48m ago
Hilarious, didn't know it had a name! I am maybe 1/4 persian, but get picked out as Persian, and was unknowingly indoctrinated in this form of behavior, though other parts of my ancestry do come out, my mother, scotch/english/irish ,says,useing her star treck metaphore, that I am an unlikely Vulcan/Klingon hybrid. Thinkng about Taarof as it is practiced, makes me think that an LLM doing this could easily become the most dangerous thing ever.....listening to my father give me specific pointers in how to phrase things and conduct myself is enlightening, he's 97 and enjoying the storys I bring of my life and goings on. If you look further into the history of persian culture , philosophy, and scientific background you will find a number of ancient contributors to what has developed today.
charcircuit•1h ago
>Model responses that use gender stereotypes (highlighted in orange) to justify behavior, despite taarof norms being gender-neutral in these contexts

Just because the model mentions gender, it doesn't mean the decision was made because of gender and not taarof. This is the classic mistake of personifying LLMs. You can't trust what the LLM says it's thinking as what is actually happening. It's not actually an entity talking.

falcor84•1h ago
I don't get your argument - what does mistaken personification have to do with this? Regardless of whether you see it as a person or a machine, trusting the output as being a direct indication of the internal state is just not a proper investigative method for a non-trivial situation.
WJW•1h ago
Seems legit. There can't be all that much spoken Iranian in the training set(s) of these models, so it makes sense they don't know how to do it.
LargoLasskhyfv•1h ago
I'll stubbornly resist, and consider this a form of unnecessary protocol overhead, leading to even more shmancy sycophancy, which I do not fancy!
WJW•50m ago
That's kind of the point of politeness rituals in the first place, isn't it? To see who can be bothered to spend some extra effort to fit in and who doesn't care enough about the tribe to make the effort.
LargoLasskhyfv•42m ago
(Spittlespraying screaming, wildly pointing fingers...) DISCRIMINAYSHUN!1!!
quotemstr•21m ago
> Native Persian speakers establish the human ceiling. Native speakers achieved an average accuracy of 81.8% on taarof-expected scenarios, demonstrating high but not perfect agreement. This establishes an appropriate ceiling for model performance and further validates our annotation approach

I'm surprised human benchmark is that low. The canonical example of taarof, one I've seen elsewhere, is of a taxi driver insisting that a ride is free while expecting to get paid. Taarof in this case is load-bearing for the transaction. I presume humans only get th edge cases wrong.

As an aside, there are elements of this sort of thing in Bay Area tech culture too. Something that drives me nuts is someone writing on a code review "you may want to consider using the X data struct here" and meaning "I will not merge this code until you use X". I can only imagine taarof irks more literal-minded Persian speakers for the same reason.

M4.6 Earthquake – 2 km ESE of Berkeley, CA

https://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eventpage/ew1758534970/executive
36•brian-armstrong•36m ago•9 comments

LinkedIn will soon train AI models with data from European users

https://hostvix.com/linkedin-will-soon-train-ai-models-with-data-from-european-users/
26•skilled•1h ago•7 comments

You did this with an AI and you do not understand what you're doing here

https://hackerone.com/reports/3340109
225•redbell•2h ago•98 comments

SGI demos from long ago in the browser via WASM

https://github.com/sgi-demos
44•yankcrime•2h ago•4 comments

Tell the EU: Don't Break Encryption with "Chat Control"

https://www.mozillafoundation.org/en/campaigns/tell-the-eu-dont-break-encryption-with-chat-control/
65•nickslaughter02•36m ago•8 comments

How I, a beginner developer, read the tutorial you, a developer, wrote for me

https://anniemueller.com/posts/how-i-a-non-developer-read-the-tutorial-you-a-developer-wrote-for-...
375•wonger_•9h ago•192 comments

Metamaterials, AI, and the Road to Invisibility Cloaks

https://open.substack.com/pub/thepotentialsurface/p/metamaterials-ai-and-the-road-to
11•Annabella_W•1h ago•0 comments

Privacy and Security Risks in the eSIM Ecosystem [pdf]

https://www.usenix.org/system/files/usenixsecurity25-motallebighomi.pdf
169•walterbell•6h ago•89 comments

Show HN: Software Freelancers Contract Template

https://sopimusgeneraattori.ohjelmistofriikit.fi/?lang=en
42•baobabKoodaa•3h ago•9 comments

Biconnected components

https://emi-h.com/articles/bcc.html
6•emih•11h ago•0 comments

Download responsibly

https://blog.geofabrik.de/index.php/2025/09/10/download-responsibly/
227•marklit•5h ago•119 comments

Some Republicans Warn of Government Overreach on Free Speech

https://www.wsj.com/politics/policy/some-republicans-warn-of-government-overreach-on-free-speech-...
23•doener•39m ago•2 comments

Sj.h: A tiny little JSON parsing library in ~150 lines of C99

https://github.com/rxi/sj.h
412•simonpure•17h ago•204 comments

Show HN: Coding Agents swarming your codebase

https://infrastructureas.ai
6•FreeFrosty•1h ago•0 comments

A Generalized Algebraic Theory of Directed Equality

https://jacobneu.phd/
34•matt_d•3d ago•8 comments

Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?

https://www.quantamagazine.org/why-is-venus-hell-and-earth-an-eden-20250915/
136•pseudolus•11h ago•206 comments

Simulating a Machine from the 80s

https://rmazur.io/blog/fahivets.html
47•roman-mazur•3d ago•5 comments

The death rays that guard life

https://worksinprogress.co/issue/the-death-rays-that-guard-life/
7•ortegaygasset•3d ago•3 comments

We Politely Insist: Your LLM Must Learn the Persian Art of Taarof

https://arxiv.org/abs/2509.01035
45•chosenbeard•10h ago•9 comments

Lightweight, highly accurate line and paragraph detection

https://arxiv.org/abs/2203.09638
120•colonCapitalDee•13h ago•19 comments

40k-Year-Old Symbols in Caves Worldwide May Be the Earliest Written Language

https://www.openculture.com/2025/09/40000-year-old-symbols-found-in-caves-worldwide-may-be-the-ea...
154•mdp2021•4d ago•93 comments

How can I influence others without manipulating them?

https://andiroberts.com/leadership-questions/how-to-influence-others-without-manipulating
129•kiyanwang•12h ago•122 comments

DSM Disorders Disappear in Statistical Clustering of Psychiatric Symptoms (2024)

https://www.psychiatrymargins.com/p/traditional-dsm-disorders-dissolve?r=2wyot6&triedRedirect=true
134•rendx•8h ago•77 comments

DXGI debugging: Microsoft put me on a list

https://slugcat.systems/post/25-09-21-dxgi-debugging-microsoft-put-me-on-a-list/
265•todsacerdoti•19h ago•76 comments

Nvmath-Python: Nvidia Math Libraries for the Python Ecosystem

https://github.com/NVIDIA/nvmath-python
52•gballan•3d ago•1 comments

Why your outdoorsy friend suddenly has a gummy bear power bank

https://www.theverge.com/tech/781387/backpacking-ultralight-haribo-power-bank
229•arnon•22h ago•271 comments

Teach Kids Electronics Using Dough: Light Up Caterpillar Project

https://newsletter.infiniteretry.com/dough-circuits-led-caterpillar/
17•ekuck•3d ago•2 comments

I uncovered an ACPI bug in my Dell Inspiron 5567. It was plaguing me for 8 years

https://triangulatedexistence.mataroa.blog/blog/i-uncovered-an-acpi-bug-in-my-dell-inspiron-5667-...
71•thunderbong•3d ago•11 comments

Show HN: Tips to stay safe from NPM supply chain attacks

https://github.com/bodadotsh/npm-security-best-practices
68•bodash•13h ago•41 comments

Calculator Forensics (2002)

https://www.rskey.org/~mwsebastian/miscprj/results.htm
83•ColinWright•3d ago•37 comments