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OpenAI and Nvidia Announce Partnership to Deploy 10GW of Nvidia Systems

https://openai.com/index/openai-nvidia-systems-partnership/
87•meetpateltech•1h ago•93 comments

PlanetScale for Postgres is now GA

https://planetscale.com/blog/planetscale-for-postgres-is-generally-available
142•munns•2h ago•57 comments

The American nations across North America

https://colinwoodard.com/new-map-the-american-nations-regions-across-north-america/
36•loughnane•1h ago•34 comments

Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

https://blog.cloudflare.com/supporting-the-future-of-the-open-web/
313•jgrahamc•4h ago•208 comments

SWE-Bench Pro

https://github.com/scaleapi/SWE-bench_Pro-os
21•tosh•1h ago•5 comments

A simple way to measure knots has come unraveled

https://www.quantamagazine.org/a-simple-way-to-measure-knots-has-come-unraveled-20250922/
59•baruchel•2h ago•18 comments

Mentra (YC W25) Is Hiring to build smart glasses

1•caydenpiercehax•18m ago

Cap'n Web: a new RPC system for browsers and web servers

https://blog.cloudflare.com/capnweb-javascript-rpc-library/
125•jgrahamc•4h ago•48 comments

A New Internet Business Model?

https://blog.cloudflare.com/cloudflare-2025-annual-founders-letter/
133•mmaia•2h ago•116 comments

Easy Forth (2015)

https://skilldrick.github.io/easyforth/
131•pkilgore•5h ago•76 comments

CompileBench: Can AI Compile 22-year-old Code?

https://quesma.com/blog/introducing-compilebench/
85•jakozaur•4h ago•21 comments

What is algebraic about algebraic effects?

https://interjectedfuture.com/what-is-algebraic-about-algebraic-effects/
39•iamwil•2h ago•11 comments

What if we treated Postgres like SQLite?

https://www.maragu.dev/blog/what-if-we-treated-postgres-like-sqlite
43•markusw•3h ago•37 comments

How I, a beginner developer, read the tutorial you, a developer, wrote for me

https://anniemueller.com/posts/how-i-a-non-developer-read-the-tutorial-you-a-developer-wrote-for-...
733•wonger_•15h ago•337 comments

The Strange Tale of the Hotchkiss

https://www.edrdg.org/~jwb/mondir/hotchkiss.html
7•rwmj•1d ago•0 comments

SGI demos from long ago in the browser via WASM

https://github.com/sgi-demos
187•yankcrime•9h ago•49 comments

Anti-*: The Things We Do but Not All the Way

https://blog.jim-nielsen.com/2025/my-antis/
25•gregwolanski•2h ago•10 comments

Human-Oriented Markup Language

https://huml.io/
19•vishnukvmd•1h ago•14 comments

A board member's perspective of the RubyGems controversy

https://apiguy.substack.com/p/a-board-members-perspective-of-the
12•janpio•54m ago•3 comments

Dear GitHub: no YAML anchors, please

https://blog.yossarian.net/2025/09/22/dear-github-no-yaml-anchors
132•woodruffw•2h ago•100 comments

Beyond the Front Page: A Personal Guide to Hacker News

https://hsu.cy/2025/09/how-to-read-hn/
106•firexcy•7h ago•55 comments

UK Millionaire exodus did not occur, study reveals

https://taxjustice.net/press/millionaire-exodus-did-not-occur-study-reveals/
150•mooreds•1h ago•128 comments

A Beautiful Maths Game

https://sinerider.com/
65•waonderer•2d ago•18 comments

Kmart's use of facial recognition to tackle refund fraud unlawful

https://www.oaic.gov.au/news/media-centre/18-kmarts-use-of-facial-recognition-to-tackle-refund-fr...
207•Improvement•6h ago•187 comments

Emerald Source Code Commentary

https://0xabad1dea.github.io/emeraldscc/
10•todsacerdoti•3d ago•2 comments

You did this with an AI and you do not understand what you're doing here

https://hackerone.com/reports/3340109
853•redbell•9h ago•407 comments

Privacy and Security Risks in the eSIM Ecosystem [pdf]

https://www.usenix.org/system/files/usenixsecurity25-motallebighomi.pdf
229•walterbell•12h ago•120 comments

Biconnected components

https://emi-h.com/articles/bcc.html
38•emih•18h ago•13 comments

Show HN: Software Freelancers Contract Template

https://sopimusgeneraattori.ohjelmistofriikit.fi/?lang=en
114•baobabKoodaa•9h ago•39 comments

The death rays that guard life

https://worksinprogress.co/issue/the-death-rays-that-guard-life/
43•ortegaygasset•4d ago•32 comments
Open in hackernews

Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

https://blog.cloudflare.com/supporting-the-future-of-the-open-web/
302•jgrahamc•4h ago

Comments

ForHackernews•2h ago
Ladybird is great, but Omarchy is a weird choice. Why can't DHH / Basecamp sponsor David's hobby distro if he wants?

The browser ecosystem is dangerously centralized and another independent rendering engine would be welcome. In contrast, I don't see the value in yet another flavor-of-the-week Linux distro. Even sponsoring Arch directly would make more sense here.

indigodaddy•2h ago
Also isn't it just a script to install some stuff and customize
ericd•2h ago
I think the last mile polish has always been a big weakness of the oss ecosystem (on average), so this kind of integration into a nice package is important work, I think. Personally, I’m really enjoying Omarchy.
draven•2h ago
omakub (https://omakub.org/) is/was (for Ubuntu), this looks more like a "real" Arch derivative.
EricRiese•2h ago
That's what I thought but I just checked and 3.0.0 was released 5 days ago and it has an ISO.
nomdep•1h ago
Like Dropbox was "just an sftp server"
arrowtrench•1h ago
Managing servers that store terabytes of data for you isn't exactly the same as configuring and stitching Linux programs together.
nomdep•42m ago
My point is that it’s not about what work is done, but about what users get from that work.

Everyone could, in theory, learn how to configure Arch and Hyprland, but most of us don’t have the time or interest to do it.

So Omarchy is to Arch something similar of what Ubuntu was to Debian 15 years ago.

lavela•2h ago
Openly aligning with DHH is certainly a choice. After all being created by DHH is the only feature they list on their website.

Didn't care for the DHH controversies for a long time but if you start writing white national blog posts[1] I don't know what to say anymore.

[1] https://world.hey.com/dhh/as-i-remember-london-e7d38e64

kolektiv•2h ago
Yup, and just to add, for those not in the UK, or particularly connected to London, etc. - this take is utter garbage. The UK certainly has a variety of challenges, but they are not what the far right (and that's what the people he's talking about absolutely are) make them out to be. London is not what it's painted to be by external rabble-rousers and populists, and this mania/delusion that's being pushed (sometimes by the very wealthy who are often much closer to the problem than immigrants are) is a significant problem.

DHH is (or should be) pretty close to a toxic brand right now, and for someone who published various edicts on "don't talk about politics at work", it would be lovely if he followed his own advice a little more.

nomdep•1h ago
Sorry, but everything he says about the UK in that post has an external link (except for how he feels), so which of his points are lies, exactly?

* Migrant hotels kept expanding: https://news.sky.com/story/government-struggling-to-reduce-m...

* 30 arrests a day for wrongthink: https://freespeechunion.org/police-make-30-arrests-a-day-for...

* Graham Linehan jailed for three tweets: https://grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/i-just-got-arrested-aga...

* Pakistani rape gangs unchecked: https://www.economist.com/britain/2025/06/18/the-grooming-ga...

* Rampant street thefts: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/mobile-phone-theft-lon...

youngtaff•34m ago
So are you also going to list the fact that 40% of people who got arrested in 2024 anti-immigrant riots also had convictions for domestic and sexual violence

Being arrested for ‘wrong think’ is often a case of being arrested for inciting violence of racial hatred

There are more white grooming gangs than Pakistani ones

etc… etc…

DHH’s post just picked the stories that suited his bias

bpoyner•11m ago
Sad you have to come to the bottom of the comment section to find any criticism of DHH. I wouldn't do business with the guy, nor use his OS.
pelagicAustral•2h ago
Can anybody have an option that doesn't align with yours anymore?
kolektiv•2h ago
It's not really about whether it aligns or not, it's more about whether it's true. What he says about London isn't true, but it is divisive and fearmongering.
lavela•2h ago
Sure they can, but can't I have an opinion and share that with others anymore?
bdn_•2h ago
Of course you can, nobody is claiming otherwise. Freedom of speech does not come with freedom from the consequences of what you say.

I have the freedom to scream "FIRE" in a crowded building when there really isn't a fire, does this mean I should be excused from the consequences? DHH has the freedom to post racist and intentionally divisive BS on his own site, and we have the freedom to let people who care about being anti-racist know to stay away from him and his work.

jwhiles•39m ago
DHH very keen to demonstrate to all Londoners that he’s not been to London

edit: and also is a tool

risho•2h ago
omarchy has brought in thousands of new linux users that previously had no interest in desktop linux. its one of the best things that has happened to desktop linux in recent memory. most everythign else in linux is incestuous self referential stuff for people who already use linux. that is why it is different.
ForHackernews•2h ago
I'd like to see a citation on that. I don't think I've ever encountered Omarchy outside the pages of this website. SteamOS seems far more consequential to me in terms of end-user Linux adoption.

Something like https://www.anduinos.com/ is far friendlier and more approachable for folks new to Linux. Why not sponsor that? I cannot imagine who the target audience is going from MacOS straight to TUIs on Arch.

pmdr•16m ago
Why not sponsor something that is already gaining traction? Lots of posts on Omakub/Omarchy on X and reddit, so they're clearly doing something right.

Linux didn't need only polish and money, it needed an evangelist with a story of dumping and supposedly fighting against Apple. This might put off people that obviously never needed any help in using or customizing Linux, but not those looking to switch over.

leoc•2h ago
I have to say, a single announcement that Cloudflare is sponsoring specifically these two projects does start to look a bit like an attempt to curry favour with the grassroots part of the tech right: give “their guys” some money and praise and maybe they’ll stay off Cloudflare’s back for a bit. And to be clear, that’s not to say that it’s bad to sponsor Ladybird, or maybe even Omarchy.
nemomarx•2h ago
Is Ladybird a tech right thing?
leoc•1h ago
I wouldn't describe it as such, but that's not what matters here. Andreas Kling has been out championing the anti-anti-Charlie-Kirk cause on Twitter, so it's a safe bet that the Lundukish grassroots anti-wokes see him as one of theirs. Whether he has any juice with the right-wing VC set I don't know.
shadytrees•49m ago
Kling's politics aside, he's also had a history of abandoning projects after hyping them up on social media and attracting contributors. Here is what happened to SerenityOS and jakt, for example:

https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/graphs/commit-activit... https://github.com/SerenityOS/jakt/graphs/commit-activity

If Cloudflare wants to defend the future of the web, maybe they could also throw a few dollars towards projects with better governance and aren't helmed by a BFDL with a spotty record and are written in a more future-proof language than C++ [0]. (For example, Servo.)

[0]: In Kling's own words! https://web.archive.org/web/20250819053816/https://awesomekl...

youngtaff•38m ago
Someone should do some digging into GamerGate…
skyfaller•23m ago
The lead Ladybird dev endorses white replacement theory:

https://corteximplant.net/objects/f2d30c92-a64f-4154-940f-99...

https://archive.is/ZtQpj

Sadly we cannot expect anything good from Ladybird (although the original SerenityOS browser still exists, without the problematic lead dev but also without the resources he brought).

veeti•5m ago
I don't see any endorsement of such things in the linked tweet, did you put the wrong link?
robinhood•1h ago
Omarchy will still have to distribute its image, so lots of bandwidth since they do not want to rely on the AUR during the install process (since AUR has been targeted by DDOSS attacks recently). Perhaps Cloudflare will provide that and not a dollar amount?
SubGenius•2h ago
Great to see CF sponsoring Ladybird! One of the most important projects out there right now.

I run vanilla arch/i3, so not super interested in Omarchy itself - but am curious to know how polished of a distro they can come up with. I may give it a try soon.

Imustaskforhelp•2h ago
I was running hyprland with my own dotfiles and using omarchy was quite painless except the only gripe I had were quickly fixed and the other gripe that I have is that it doesn't have nm-applet manager to manage wifi etc. and has a terminal.

So it turned out that my wifi adapter wasn't connected properly and I was giving a test and submission date was near and the wifi had died mid way and I couldn't connect to other wifi because I felt as if the terminal wasn't working and not the adapter...

Definitely give me a bit of a pain. really wish that they can use nm-applet as well... Optionally support terminal wifi too but definitely give atleast an option to get gui wifi.

Also I feel like omarchy focused quite much on bash and I used to use zsh with my custom dot filess which were really lovely. I had semi invented fish in zsh but it was my zsh and it was snappy.

Now I tried to have one ble.sh in bash and it stutters like it turned 80 lol. I definitely love zsh over bash and wish omarchy supported that too...

Luckily I have everything backed up so I will try to move away from bash I think,

One thing that I like is that omarchy has its own aur-ish thing where I found things like bun which isn't arch extra and aur definitely felt clunky. Using the omarchy repo to install bun was kinda nice actually.

I gave it a try because my system was bloated and I hadn't configured it properly in teh sense that my 100 gig was split into 40 40 and 8 swap and uh that 40 of home really got bloated somehow and I couldn't even update my pc using pacman and felt like a massive deal actually.

So I just actually picked my dotfiles and moved on. Might recommend it, it seems that omarchy also has backup support using btrfs by default which I didn't have in my ext4 arch

pkulak•27m ago
I think it's pretty cool that I have something I can send to someone who uses a macbook and wants to try out linux. I use a custom Nix config that I've built up over the last 5 years; it's not exactly something I can recommend.

I currently recommend Bluefin... but this might be good for an _even_ easier (though less stable) setup, that has all the tiling bling.

tracker1•24m ago
I kind of wish that Servo would get similar attention to get over the hump itself as well... afaik, Ladybird and Servo are both at a similar level in terms of standards support. Though Servo also really needs a full browser project around it, since it's an engine alone.

One thing I think that would be nice to see would be self-oriented browser config syncing using one of a few different cloud file sync backends, even evil ones (google drive, one-drive, dropbox, etc).

jmclnx•2h ago
My big question about Ladybird, will it support BSD also ?

>Ladybird has since grown into a cross-platform browser supporting Linux, macOS, and other Unix-like systems

Cool, seems it will support

BSD, hopefully that sticks with this new funding.
ForHackernews•2h ago
> Omarchy 3.0 was released just last week with faster installation and increased Macbook compatibility, so if you’ve been Linux-curious for a while now, we encourage you to try it out!

"If you're curious about trying Linux, why not install this obscure mouseless tiling TUI distro to guarantee you'll never attempt to use Linux again!"

troupo•1h ago
I use the mouse in Omarchy all the time.

And I've used Macs since 2008 (and it's still my main work computer)

quibono•1h ago
Not mouseless or obscure but it definitely is a distro

Granted, it does have a TUI focus

ForHackernews•1h ago
> 310 FydeOS

> 311 Omarchy

> 312 Adélie

https://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=popularity

311th is plenty obscure in my book.

pmdr•5m ago
Isn't their ranking based on how many hits their respective pages get? Omarchy hype is happening on social media for the most part.
flykespice•2h ago
I'm curious what makes LadyBird so special compared to other major browsers like Firefox and Chromium?
johannes1234321•2h ago
It's not financed by Google.
afandian•2h ago
It's famously impossible to donate money to Firefox (at least for users).
voxic11•2h ago
By this you mean that donations can only go to Mozilla and cannot be earmarked for the Firefox browser specifically right?
afandian•2h ago
Yes. You can donate to the foundation but not only do they prevent earmarking, they actively don't use it for browser development.

I even mailed them back in June to confirm. They replied:

...

> When you donate to the Mozilla Foundation, your contribution goes directly toward advancing our mission to ensure the internet remains open and accessible for all. Our work focuses on issues like online privacy, open-source technologies, worthy AI and a digital world that puts people first. These funds directly support advocacy campaigns (i.e. asking irresponsible tech companies to protect your privacy), Mozilla’s fellowship program, MozFest gatherings, Common Voice, Responsible Computing Challenge, and so much more.

> However, it’s important to note that donations to Mozilla Foundation do not support the development of Firefox or any other Mozilla products.

> While we are a public-benefit 501(c)(3) organization under US law and the parent organization for the corporate entities that own Firefox, donations do not fund the Firefox browser and revenue is completely generated from within the product itself.

...

delfinom•2h ago
Why even donate to a business that keeps paying their CEO more and more while laying off employees?
justusthane•2h ago
It’s one of the very, very few independent browsers built from the ground up and not on top of one the few existing engines (Gecko, Chromium, WebKit), which is extremely important to the health of the open web.

Imagine a world where Chromium is the only browser engine. Standards wouldn’t matter and Google could just do whatever they wanted — we’re pretty close to that as it is.

al_borland•2h ago
And WebKit was built on top of KHTML. And Chromium (Blink) was built on top of WebKit.

That makes Ladybird even more unique. It’s looking to do what even Apple and Google weren’t willing to do.

tasn•2h ago
To combat a Chrome hegemony you need strong opposition, not a long-tail of weak opposition. Or in other words: Firefox needs to become more competitive. I (unfortunately) don't think having another 0.1% market cap browser is the solution, at least not for now.

Just to clarify: I'm in favor of Cloudflare donating to Ladybird, and I'm in favor of them building it! I just don't think that's the solution to combating Chrome dominance.

t-sauer•2h ago
Especially not if that browser currently ignores the biggest markets (Windows and mobile).
bonoboTP•2h ago
Firefox is also sustained by Google. So you have a choice between Google and Google.
shayway•1h ago
What is Firefox if not weak opposition? Even given a reliable firehose of income from Google they haven't cracked that 0.1% market cap, and I don't see how funneling more resources into a browser that's been floundering for over a decade now will change anything.

Ladybird is still a good few years away from being a serious competitor, but nonetheless it is the most viable candidate in the absence of a path for Firefox to become competitive.

odie5533•1h ago
It's possible combating it in terms of pushing for different standards could be sufficient. More little guys at the table means more sway to push things like JPEG XL through.
flykespice•2h ago
I suppose one immediate consequence of writing your own engine is you can't publish it to Apple Store, not that I think they care
pmdr•33m ago
> Imagine a world where Chromium is the only browser engine.

We pretty much live in that world right now. The only significant competition is Webkit.

timeon•31m ago
> It’s one of the very, very few independent browsers built from the ground up

AFAIK they are using: https://skia.googlesource.com/skia

riffic•2h ago
it's another browser engine (LibWeb), that seems notable enough on its own doesn't it?
babypuncher•59m ago
Google is evil and Mozilla is incompetent. Ladybird has the potential to be a third option with neither of these attributes.
dingdingdang•2h ago
Honestly nice move on CF's part, have to say; there's more real energy moving in the open source world since Lunduke started commenting.
pizlonator•2h ago
Refreshing to see a big corpo support these cool projects!
ksec•2h ago
May be one day Ladybird will be the default on Omarchy. And on a fast system with fast USB you could install Omarchy in under 2 minute.

Someday I hope Omarchu becomes the standard way to develop Ruby Rails on, just like how Ruby Rails was always on macOS and not Windows.

breakingcups•2h ago
Cool to see Ladybird get some corporate love. I wish Firefox got more varied sponsoring from multiple sources, too.
rvz•2h ago
> I wish Firefox got more varied sponsoring from multiple sources, too.

Mozilla promised that decacdes ago and yet they are still stuck with Google's money.

diath•2h ago
The problem with Firefox is that the money has to go through Mozilla, and Mozilla is not spending most of that money on Firefox. You cannot sponsor the development of Firefox directly, so your money ends up being wasted.
cosmic_cheese•1h ago
Firefox/Gecko also just can’t be as relevant as a Chrome/Blink competitor since Gecko doesn’t support embedding on desktop operating systems, which precludes things like Electron-style wrapping and hybrid apps. It’s a fatal flaw that Mozilla doesn’t seem to have any interest in addressing.
bigyabai•1h ago
There is nothing wrong with using CEF/Electron for some apps and then browser-based Firefox clients for the other ones.
cosmic_cheese•1h ago
Big names like Slack and Spotify can’t choose to use a Gecko-based Electron/CEF alternative though, which limits its potential impact.
0x000xca0xfe•1h ago
Maybe that's why Servo got the boot?
oefrha•2h ago
I’m skeptical. Cloudflare clearly wants to move us to a future where only approved browsers are allowed to access the web. People have been fiercely debating whether that’s a terrible thing, or whether that’s the least bad practical solution on offer for website owners. I don’t want to make a judgement on that, but I don’t think the observation that CF is pushing us in that direction is very controversial. But an independent open source web browser is obviously against that ethos. So what’s the play here exactly? Just for goodwill?

(Regardless of motivation, they’re lending more support than most other companies, so it’s applaudable nonetheless.)

imcritic•2h ago
How do you call someone who has been doing evil things suddenly do one good thing?
jsheard•2h ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reputation_laundering
MarsIronPI•2h ago
By your argument, this could still be interpreted as Cloudflare approving Ladybird. I don't see how indie genuine browsers (i.e. not bots) are "against the ethos" of restricting the web to approved browsers only.
oefrha•2h ago
"Approved browser" in this context have technical restrictions on user freedom, e.g. https://developers.cloudflare.com/fundamentals/reference/cry... I'm not talking about someone at CF just adding a random browser to an approved list. More empirically speaking, a browser can't be considered approved if you can freely fork it and not revoke the approved status.
oefrha•2h ago
Responding to a dead comment from a banned account:

> The big new game for them is AI crawler metering. Don’t think browser matters much anymore from their perspective.

Truly open browsers are easy to spoof. Approved browsers with whatever attestation features they champion builtin are hard to spoof. So browsers do matter.

Edit: authentication => attestation for accuracy.

jorvi•2h ago
Browser attestation doesn't really matter, its device attestation. Browser attestation is downstream from that.

Google with SafetyNet attestation (whatever the hell its called these days) has pretty much locked down Android as tightly as iOS at this point.

Hell, Apple device users already get to go in the internet "approved" fast lane because of attestation. iDevices and M-series Macbooks can send out a special response that bypasses all captchas.

Windows 11 has a requirement for TPM2, which features hardware attestation too.

Linux of course cannot be locked down in a similar manner, thus cannot attest and will have to suffer for it.

It would probably be illegal for CloudFlare + Google to outright block you from accessing the internet, but they can just drown you in a sea of captchas until you give up and join the attested crowd. Hell, YouTube outright forces you to sign in if they detect a VPN, they won't even offer a captcha.

Like 'Amusing Ourselves to Death' points out, it isn't a 1984-esque brutal fascist control that will erode our freedoms, but rather a Brave New World-esque situation where people will sign away all (digital) control because the dopamine must flow.

bstsb•1h ago
i'd be surprised if it was actually illegal. "operating system" isn't a protected characteristic in law
tracker1•35m ago
I haven't notice too many captchas from Linux myself... maybe about 50% more than Windows or Mac, but in general it hasn't been so bad. I do think that it could potentially get bad though.

I'm also not sure how this can/would shake out when you can just use tools like Playwright/Puppeteer to manage a real browser. Both Google and MS do this (not as much as bare crawlers) to handle SPA-like site content.

ChocolateGod•11m ago
[delayed]
vulcan01•2h ago
Cloudflare supporting Ladybird makes sense for the same reasons that Valve invests in Proton. Cloudflare's job is easier if everyone standardizes on a few approved browsers, but right now the three major browser engines are controlled by Google (IIRC most of Mozilla's funding comes from Google) and Apple, just as Valve's Steam is heavily dependent on Microsoft's Windows.

Both companies are basically hedging against future incentive misalignment with other (larger) companies, and reducing their dependencies on platforms they have ~zero influence over.

cosmic_cheese•1h ago
To add to this, Apple’s share of the control is minimal and precarious. A timeline where Google is the sole web engine authority could easily become reality and is even likely.

Hedging on a promising upstart makes a lot of sense.

bigyabai•1h ago
Apple isn't the only one standing in the way of a Google hegemony. If they are, then the web is already fucked since neither corporation has a benevolent track record pertaining to Open Source. Apple just can't compete without steering privileges that are equally harmful to the open web.
scared_together•1h ago
> Apple isn't the only one standing in the way of a Google hegemony.

Who else would you consider?

Chromium-based browsers from companies other than Google are still contributing to Google’s hegemony. And Mozilla is funded by Google.

bigyabai•1h ago
KHTML, Gecko, most Blink forks.
StopDisinfo910•1h ago
KHTML development stopped nearly ten years ago and I don’t know any significant Blink forks.
cosmic_cheese•1h ago
If web devs get permission to start ignoring Safari (which currently sits at ~20% marketshare), there’s no way they’re going to care about Firefox which doesn’t have even a fifth as much. If Safari falls so does Firefox.
overfeed•58m ago
> If they are, then the web is already fucked since neither corporation has a benevolent track record pertaining to Open Source.

Interesting take, since Google has both authored and supported hundreds of FLOSS projects over many years. They even sponsored summer "internships" for students to contribute to Open Source software as long as a maintainer bothered to register and promise to mentor the student via "Summer of Code"

chucky_z•39m ago
As someone who's lived in the bay for a bit over 10 years now, when I first moved here Google was very much that company that you think they were. Now, they are not. Every single friend (and it was >50% when I moved here!) has since left Google in the bay area. There is one left at Google entirely, and they're only remaining due to physical location (near family outside the US). I have watched my friends get brutally and relentlessly pipped over the tiniest bullshit reasons. This is all entirely 2nd hand so my perspective is very skewed, but even my friends from Facebook/Netflix/Apple weren't treated that way.
skybrian•1h ago
I haven’t seen any signs that Apple will abandon Safari, have you? Also, a browser that uses Chromium could put a halt to Google’s plans if they wanted. The easiest way would be to stop upgrading and just port over security patches. (Sure, it brings progress to a halt, but this is unlikely to matter to web developers in the short run and it would get people’s attention.)

They aren’t going to do this, though, so long as new releases of Chromium are reasonable.

cosmic_cheese•1h ago
If/when Apple is forced to start allowing Blink on iOS globally, all it takes is a hearty marketing push from Google and devs putting “best viewed in Chrome” badges on their sites for Safari’s marketshare (and with it, Apple’s influence) to plummet.
skybrian•1h ago
Given how AMP eventually died, it seems unlikely that web developers would go along with it. What’s in it for them?

Also, I don’t see any sign that Google even wants to do it? This is not really evidence-based reasoning, it’s just “I can imagine something evil that Google might do.”

cosmic_cheese•1h ago
Both are already happening.

Google markets Chrome relentlessly, with popups in search and YouTube if you're using other browsers, browser choice dialogs in Google iOS apps (despite iOS having a default browser setting for 5 years now), Chrome getting bundled into random Windows software installers, etc.

Many devs actively desire single-engine development and testing and many aren't shy about using Chrome only features already. If they had the capability to tell users to go install Chrome instead of targeting broadly supported features, they would do so in a heartbeat.

troupo•1h ago
> This is not really evidence-based reasoning, it’s just “I can imagine something evil that Google might do.”

Please read Mozilla's story on how Google sabotaged them: https://archive.is/tgIH9

Oh. And they very literally killed Internet Explorer: https://blog.chriszacharias.com/a-conspiracy-to-kill-ie6

Oh. And Google's mobile apps always conveniently forget the setting of "always use system browser and never ask me", and will keep asking you to open with "chrome", "google", or "system browser".

Oh and...

jorvi•1h ago
Google doesn't have control of Chromium though. The source is available and it is permissively licensed. If they did something truly onerous, Microsoft would fork it within hours and everyone would switch their upstream to Edgium.

The only reason Google calls the shots is because they pour billions of dollars into maintaining Chromium. The fact that they can do that (and even fund Firefox at the same time) is because of their ad monopoly. Same with search, Gmail, Translate, Maps. None of those things can exist without the ad monopoly funding it all.

Complaining about Chrome is barking up the wrong tree.

cosmic_cheese•1h ago
Even if that’s true, are we going to see Google’s dominance in the ad space meaningfully curbed? It seems highly unlikely at best, and it doesn’t matter how loud any of us are barking (at least until there’s a massive shift in political headwinds).

Until that’s addressed, Chrome being dominant is a problem, because Google has created an “open moat” with their resource expenditure. Microsoft sure as hell isn’t going to be able to justify that kind of spend on their Chromium fork, and so their influence will never be of note.

jorvi•45m ago
> Even if that’s true, are we going to see Google’s dominance in the ad space meaningfully curbed?

> (at least until there’s a massive shift in political headwinds)

It did look like it for a while with the US its antitrust action and the EU also taking aggressive action. But then Google kissed the ring and the DoJ pulled back it's recommendation of Google divesting DoubleClick, and the EU lost the staredown with Trump and made their measures toothless too.

Who knows what will happen in the 2030s though. If the Democrats get into power again, I'm sure they'll remember how big tech switched up on them and there will be a serious reckoning.

ammar2•1h ago
> Microsoft would fork it within hours

I haven't trudged through Chromium's commit statistics but has Microsoft been upstreaming many contributions? I'm skeptical that they are ready to take on the full brunt of Chromium maintenance on a whim, it would take a decent while to build up the teams and expertise for it.

FinnKuhn•48m ago
Before they swapped Edge over to use Chromium they were capable of maintaining their own engine just fine. Probably not overnight, but in the past they have shown that they have the budget to support a browser engine if they want to.
fabrice_d•11m ago
Why do you think they moved to Chromium then? They switched because they could not support a competitive engine by themselves.
FinnKuhn•4m ago
[delayed]
latexr•41m ago
> If they did something truly onerous

It would very unlikely be something which would affect Microsoft’s bottom line. They wouldn’t care.

> and everyone would switch their upstream to Edgium.

Who’s “everyone”? Anyone who cares minimally about possible shenanigans in Chromium is already selectively merging changes.

Edge aggressively sets itself as the default browser and slurps information from Chrome without permission. Edge and Microsoft are not and will not be a saviour from Google and Chrome.

epistasis•40m ago
> Microsoft would fork it within hours and everyone would switch their upstream to Edgium.

Why would people trust Microsoft more than Google, though? Even with really bad actions, switching browsers is very difficult (i.e. it requires making an active choice and change about an obscure topic) and I don't see normal people doing it, which is what would be required for this to happen.

Microsoft can't get any traction for Edge even with the pushiness on their OS and massive market share. I recently installed Windows 11 on a box and even searching for Chrome had the top portion of the screen show "You don't need a different browser!" at the top of Bing. Did that stop me? No. Not going to use a Microsoft browser, thanks.

account42•1h ago
That response ignores the fact that Valve isn't in the business of preventing you from playing your games on niche operating systems but Cloudflare is in the business of blocking non-standard browsers. If Cloudflare truly wants to prevent a Google/Apple web duopoly the most effective thing they can do is to stop blocking alternatives or even just browser-configurations that are Google-hostile.
tonyhart7•2h ago
why you acting like cloudflare forced people to use their services????

there are a alternative on the market like akamai and fastly

people free to use their favorite cdn over CF lol

oefrha•2h ago
> People have been fiercely debating

> whether that’s the least bad practical solution on offer for website owners

> I don’t want to make a judgement on that

I explicitly said I don't want to debate that. Take a deep breath, no one is taking away your favorite CDN.

tonyhart7•50m ago
people have hate boner for CF, you cant deny that

but replace CF with another provider and they would do the same shit

blibble•2h ago
a wide rollout of remote attestation would mean cloudflare becomes completely redundant

so I doubt they want that

a murky world where you "need" a guardian middle-man is what they want to preserve

robinhood•2h ago
I don't understand why we always assume bad faith. I wish more companies were like Cloudflare actually - trying to balance the need of revenues while trying to do good for internet and open source as a whole.

As a normal user with a few sites, I'm glad they provide what they provide to block bots, attacks and everything AI.

xandrius•1h ago
There is no way you didn't write this comment while laughing out loud.

For-profit companies care about profits for their shareholders, that's it. Heck, even non-profit often tend to value more profit than their integrity or cause but that's a topic for another day.

I wish this wasn't the case but even good-willed individuals at the helm of for-profits are forced to pursue profit and avoid anything clearly leading to losses, else they are sacked.

robinhood•1h ago
I'm sorry you see the world that way.
superkuh•41m ago
Those of us who get blocked from access services (government, commercial, personal) by cloudflare nearly every day have the lived experience to really understand the issue and the company. Most are blissfully unaware of their lack of experience. If you stick to corporate browsers you'd never know. It's not your fault, but maybe reflect on this lack of experience before commenting with so much confidence.
parineum•1h ago
You're severely misinformed and parotting misinformed meme interpretations of fiduciary duty.

Integrity and a healthy market align with fiduciary duty as long as one can make the argument that it's in the long term interest of the company. It's really, really difficult to find examples of a person being held liable for not upholding their fiduciary duty because what can be argued as good for the long term success of the company involves a lot of prognostication.

Fiduciary duty is there to prevent things like a CEO choosing to oberpay his cousin's company that has no history in the market for things they've never done before when there is an obviously better option available.

Companies that act poorly, as you describe, do so out of their own desire, not because they are forced to by any sort of duty.

xandrius•21m ago
Since you seem so well-informed I would love any example of good-will and strictly not-for-profit activities done directly by a large corporation with shareholders which weren't done have other reasons.

Examples of things which don't count:

- Supporting an open source competitor to avoid getting hammered by antitrust

- Giving money to a foundation (which they may or might not own) for greenwashing

- Giving money to a foundation ran by a friend/family member

- Doing an activity to try to fix an evil thing they did before and backfired

- Doing something good for obvious PR reason (e.g. By being heavily advertised) but then do something even worse in the same area later on

I'm genuinely interested in a healthy conversation about this. But I honestly cannot think of anything which either is generally free for the company or that will help them getting (or not losing) more money. Happy to be wrong.

scubbo•1h ago
It is baffling and concerning that anyone disagrees with you. The blind faith of so many that companies will magically and selflessly act in the best interest of anyone but their shareholders is, perhaps, the most damaging social ill we face (exacerbated by Citizens United).
andy99•1h ago
Cloudflare business model is basically to hold the internet for ransom. Why would anyone assume good faith?
robinhood•1h ago
I do not understand your position at all.
PlotCitizen•1h ago
https://g.co/gemini/share/052a6e3d6847
JeremyNT•1h ago
> I don't understand why we always assume bad faith. I wish more companies were like Cloudflare actually - trying to balance the need of revenues while trying to do good for internet and open source as a whole.

This is quite simple and history bears it out: you can't rely on a for-profit corporation to operate in any other manner than optimizing shareholder value.

When VC money is flowing, you see things that look like (or even can be) altruism - but when the belts tighten and waste is eliminated these endeavors need to align with the company's goals.

Therefore, look for what Cloudflare is "buying" in this transaction. I suggest they probably want the PR win as it distracts from their objective of locking down the web, and it's worth the expenditure to them.

boxed•1h ago
> This is quite simple and history bears it out: you can't rely on a for-profit corporation to operate in any other manner than optimizing shareholder value.

You can't even do that honestly. Look at Boeing. It got taken over by know-nothing managers that followed that religion of shareholder value, and what did it do? Destroy shareholder value!

I think we should instead say "we can't rely on any institution to be stable over time". That's a much more sane statement imo.

overfeed•48m ago
The actual metric management maximizes management remuneration, which is dependent on short-term shareholder value.

Startups nominally care more about the long view, as they need to convince investors that they high long-term value and have to act accordingly. As companies grow from VC-funded, to fast-growing public, then to well-established public company, the culture shifts to match dominant shareholder expectations.

nerdponx•41m ago
They are kind of different statements.

For-profit institutions will almost always act in the interest of profit for the people who have an ownership stake and a claim to the prophet stream. That's definitionally why they exist, and we have enough evidence from the history of everything ever to assume that they will for the most part act that way.

You are saying something different. You are pointing out that the people making decisions aren't necessarily good at making those decisions. Or maybe the incentive structure is set up such that the people making the decisions do not share the goal of profit with the company, and so decide according to what's best for them, which might or might not be what's best for the profit objective.

The instability of institutions in general is yet a third characteristic.

philipallstar•34m ago
> This is quite simple and history bears it out: you can't rely on a for-profit corporation to operate in any other manner than optimizing shareholder value.

This is like saying that history bears out that you can't rely on governments to do anything but prepare for war and then send you out to die in one.

delusional•12m ago
That's ahistoric. Democratic governments are correlated with a _decrease_ in violent conflict.
account42•1h ago
Hi, we assume bad faith because we have seen again and again that corporate humans can be expected in ways that would at best be described as sociopathic when referring to a real flesh and blood human.
nkotov•1h ago
Cloudflare is trying to establish itself as the toll station for AI. And anyone who doesn't play by their rules gets excommunicated.
deadbabe•1h ago
And what are the rules? Don’t use AI to steal training content across the internet, spread nuclear grade spam and propaganda at scale, hack servers with automated agents? Seems fine.
pmdr•51m ago
> I don't understand why we always assume bad faith.

I'm already bombarded with cloudflare captchas when using Firefox, especially on Linux. Residential IP address. I'm suspicious of everything cloudflare is doing right now.

superkuh•43m ago
Cloudflare is running the largest and longest denial of service attacks in the history of the internet by acting as arbitrary gatekeeper to important government sites like congress.gov. I haven't been able to load it in years.
blahyawnblah•28m ago
It loads fine for me. Maybe you have some other problem?
swed420•24m ago
> I don't understand why we always assume bad faith. > I wish more companies were like Cloudflare actually - trying to balance the need of revenues while trying to do good for internet and open source as a whole. > As a normal user with a few sites, I'm glad they provide what they provide to block bots, attacks and everything AI.

I think general distrust with any major company these days is warranted, especially one with so much control over the internet. But I agree with your points, too.

This should be relevant to the Cloudflare discussion, posted today:

A New Internet Business Model?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45334599

McGlockenshire•16m ago
Well, you see, once a Cloudflare site violated the TOS so badly that they had to get their C-levels involved to decide if the TOS violation was bad enough to not want them on their platform. That one site was kicked off and this site *HOWLED* at the terrible giant internet company doing a censorship and they have never been forgiven.

(The site that was "deplatformed" was fine and still exists, much to the chagrin of the minorities it directs hate towards and the people literally stalked there.)

Exoristos•1h ago
I would think it's like Vercel and Svelte. Investing in something so small is good PR and gives them an image of goodwill but also very unlikely to result in actual market changes.
cbdumas•6m ago
> Cloudflare clearly wants to move us to a future where only approved browsers are allowed to access the web.

It seems your confusion stems from this premise. Is it possible this is not a correct assumption?

DC-3•2h ago
Glad to see them sponsoring struggling indie developers like DHH.
youngtaff•43m ago
You forgot the /s
DC-3•22m ago
I wasn't being sarcastic? I heard they're making a new Koenigsegg and I'm genuinely concerned that without corporate sponsorship it might be out of his price range.
gigatexal•2h ago
not sure - if I were holding the CF purse strings I'd give any money to DHH or his endeavors but I do think the folks over at Ladybird are doing some awesome things wrt to the browser.
SoKamil•2h ago
This sponsorship is very important for the project. Not for financial reasons, but because it gathered recognition from the company that creates much of the critical infrastructure and bot protection services.

Without this recognition, the engine could have been blocked by impassable CAPTCHAs, which for the end user would mean the project is dead at its roots.

minton•2h ago
Maybe one company should not be able to decide which browsers we are allowed to use.
SoKamil•2h ago
I agree with you. But that’s the reality we have to deal with.
nkotov•1h ago
No we don't. We're accepting it as if it's our only option.
andy99•2h ago
Agreed, and definitely a sign something is very wrong with the internet.
femiagbabiaka•2h ago
I cannot for the life of me understand the Omarchy hype. The Linux community has been theming their distribution installs for decades. What distinguishes this from that?
rs_rs_rs_rs_rs•2h ago
>What distinguishes this from that?

More eyes on it, DHH has a big following.

leoc•2h ago
Also, there's always been a section of the desktop-Linux user community which is inclined to get very excited about about hypebeast window managers. Back in the day Slashdot was absolutely buzzing about Enlightenment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlightenment_(window_manager) .
nixosbestos•2h ago
Dude, if you ever find out, let me know. I don't get it, and it makes me incredibly skeptical of people that acted like Linux was unusable until this god-send of a shipped default config came around. I cannot possibly roll my eyes harder. Just goes to show how much hype accounts for, still, even in nerd circles.
Avicebron•2h ago
Omarchy is DHH of rails fame. Lots of us like ruby a lot (myself very much included), that being said I've got Omarchy running on a vm as a test case and in the <2 minutes I've looked at it i dont really think it's very intuitive.
ilogik•2h ago
It's created by dev Jesus /s
azemetre•2h ago
It's a way for web developers to easily work in the linux sphere without getting burdened too heavily. Not saying that as a dig to web devs, I'm a web deb but that's all it really appears to me. Popular dude in web dev community made it slightly easier for other web devs to do a thing.
gsibble•2h ago
It's just a very simple Linux install meant for developers. It's not for people who have used Linux before but meant to be a way for new people to try it for the first time.

And it's getting a lot of attention because of DHH. Doesn't look half bad either which helps.

827a•2h ago
Developers oftentimes struggle to understand how important marketing is.
thewebguyd•2h ago
It's popularity I think comes from a) it's brain dead easy to get running while also being a very usable and nice hyprland config b) it's from DHH which has cult following status

I'd argue there's a fairly big niche of people who want a tiling WM but also don't want to have to start from scratch, figure out what accompanying utilities and programs they want to satisfy things like runner/menu, status bar, etc.

Other dots aren't as opinionated, or don't come with such a detailed user guide that Omarchy does, nor a set up script.

I'd even argue that Omarchy isn't really for other Linux users looking to distro hop, but like Omakub, it's for mac users curious about Linux, wanting an equally opinionated set up.

noir_lord•2h ago
First time I've heard of omarchy, that said often when I really don't understand the hype of a product I have to remember it's possibly just not for me.

I've been a desktop linux user since the 90's and entirely since 2003 (excluding gaming) so I'm not the target user.

Cute in the video on the omarchy page that they use Edward Hopper's - Nighthawks painting (~11m) - that was my default wallpaper for about 15 years on Linux.

dismalaf•1h ago
I think it started when PewDiePie released his Arch/Hyprland video, then DHH jumped on the train and made it super easy to install, now everyone can feel like a hacker/ricer easily.

Maybe I'm boring but I'm sticking to Debian/Gnome...

robinhood•1h ago
The great strength of Omarchy is the fact that they've repackaged every good things from many different projects (arch, hyperland, and many packages) so I can install a fully functional distro with nice defaults, and every hardware working (bluetooth etc...), in less than 3 minutes without any interaction whatsoever. And it just works. Not because of Omarchy per se, but because they scripted the hell out of it so it just works™.

It's not magic, but damn it's nice.

boxed•1h ago
Isn't that just Ubuntu?
Perz1val•1h ago
Yes, but ubuntu made stupid choices most developers don't agree with
whitepaint•54m ago
Like what?
slipheen•41m ago
The big one for me is moving packages to snap. You can work around it, but that defeats the whole “works out of the box” aspect
wyclif•1h ago
Way, way better than Ubuntu. And it adheres to *NIX philosophy by making all the config editable via text files.
babypuncher•1h ago
The "nice defaults" of Ubuntu and Omarchy cater to completely different audiences
slightwinder•1h ago
How well does it work if I want to move outside the scripted defaults?
nextos•31m ago
It's not hard, but it's advisable to eventually set up a parallel blank Arch install where you configure everything from scratch based on things you liked from Omarchy.

I think the beauty of this is to get to understand all components in your system, which is quite simple actually.

kelvinjps•1h ago
Basically, it comes from DHH, who has a kind of big following. Primeagen also made some videos, and it's good enough.
cosmic_cheese•1h ago
Omarchy isn’t for me, but for those who find a minimal tiled Linux desktop interesting but don’t want to get lost in the jungle setting their own thing up, I don’t think you can possibly do better. It’s throughly thought through, polished, streamlined, and designed specifically to be accessible to newcomers.
troupo•1h ago
It's a dead-simple distribution with an opinionated setup that, well, mostly just works. It's a techie's version of a non-tech distribution where you don't have to tweak anything (or almost anything) to get a nice experience out of the box.

Think of it as "Ubuntu, but explicitly marketed for devs" Plus hype because DHH is a well-known figure.

Linux fandom really doesn't understand the power of defaults and the power of user experience. I mean, in the first versions of Omarchy installer you had to type in some CLI commands just to select and connect to wifi. This comes from Arch, a " a lightweight and flexible Linux® distribution that tries to Keep It Simple" [1] What's more simple than connecting to one of the most ubiquitous connection types via iwctl [2] during OS installation.

So DHH decided to make an opinionated config that mostly just works and provide you with a few conveniences out of the box.

[1] Yes, those capital letters are on their website https://archlinux.org

[2] https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Iwd#iwctl

cosmic_cheese•1h ago
> It's a dead-simple distribution with an opinionated setup that, well, mostly just works.

Sounds a lot like Rails when you put it that way, which is no coincidence given the figure behind it.

minton•1h ago
> At its core, Omarchy embraces Linux . . . makes a version of it that is accessible and fun to use for developers that don’t have a deep background in operating systems.
trostaft•1h ago
I don't think it's that crazy. Hyprland has, for a long time, looked really lovely when configured. But most don't want to configure it, the linux ricing community is really small in proportion to even the people who want to install Linux. Omarchy is dead-simple to install, has good documentation, decent opinions[1], and has huge influence because of DHH himself. I stopped running it myself after while, in favor of configuring my own Hyprland install, but it's an easily accessible shiny new thing by someone with a big following. Seems reasonable to me that people like it.

[1]: I don't agree with all of them, e.g. the chatbot shortcuts. But they're trivial to disable and/or redirect and, indeed, the project does a good job of trying not to mess with your changes.

kyawzazaw•1h ago
out of box experience that provides sane defaults with minimal effort to get to working mode
wyclif•50m ago
Good description of what Omarchy really is. It's for two groups of people:

1/ (biggest group by far) People who are new to Linux on the desktop and, to a lesser extent, want to get out of the macOS ecosystem

2/ Power users who run Arch btw, and have probably installed, configured, partitioned, and encrypted Arch without the installer script at least a few times and now want a sane default Arch + Hyprland install with sane defaults and a production-grade environment in just a few minutes

CSDude•1h ago
It's so opinionated but many people find it okay. And it's hard to install Arch successfully. Compared to Ubuntu Arch's package manager (also combined with AUR) are great.

I use every possible opportunity to say "Fuck Ubuntu Snaps"

dham•59m ago
>And it's hard to install Arch successfully.

archinstall. You can even select a DE in it

CSDude•12m ago
I only learned it with Omarchy after all of these years :(
slightwinder•1h ago
The interesting part is, how not dev-friendly their website looks and acts. It smells more like a toy for r/unixporn than something that actually caters to real developers. How old is this project? Is this just a result of lacking manpower?
dham•59m ago
Reminds me of the rsync Dropbox comment lol.
asadm•45m ago
How blind are most developers to UX being a primary selling point.
znpy•47m ago
It's "hannah montana linux" (https://linuxreviews.org/Hannah_Montana_Linux) for the late 2020s.
marginalia_nu•42m ago
Arch linux is a great linux distro that's kinda difficult to set up (more so historically but it's got that reputation).

Hyprland is a great WM that has garbage default settings and requires wading through tons of documentation, as well as a lot of effort to set up.

Omarchy is a distribution that ships Arch + Hyprland with sane defaults. The whole thing installs in minutes, and is overall very easy to get going with. This has lead to a lot of people who were previously turned off by all the sharp edges of both Arch and Hyprland to give Arch and Hyprland a shot. Since both of these things are pretty great once you get them going, a lot of people are enthusiastic.

pmdr•38m ago
The Linux community has, to my knowledge, never had someone with DHH's outreach experience and promote a "come-to-Linux" moment. Especially after using Apple products for 20 years.

Also, it has sane, sensible and appealing defaults. It's installable in a few minutes, so it saves time. I'm a happy Omakub user, even if I first used Linux back in 2005.

rs186•2h ago
The post does not mention how much money they are giving. Maybe I am a pessimist, but unless the number is in tens of millions or hundreds of millions (very unlikely), I don't think it helps the development of an independent browser very much. Google probably has poured over billions of dollars into Chrome development over the years, and if you look at what Chrome supports, it's massive. I seriously doubt anybody else can match their feature set, not to mention involvement in drafting the latest standards.
9cb14c1ec0•2h ago
Go look at what the Ladybird project has accomplished with much fewer resources. Ladybird will soon be as good as Firefox.
tracker1•22m ago
For relative definitions of "soon" and depending on the feature you use. I'd say it's probably 2 years or so away from being a real competitive option to FF/Chrome.
zarzavat•2h ago
LuaJIT was developed by one person. Ladybird doesn't need hundreds of millions of dollars, it needs interpreter specialists who are willing to lend their time to the project, and an army of volunteers to work on the rest of the rendering engine.
nurbel•2h ago
why do you think the js interpreter is that special compared to all the rest? AFAIU, CSS is a much more complex beast, as the spec has not been written to reflect the way it could be implemented
troupo•1h ago
So you want people to work for free on one of the most complex pieces of software in existence? Why wouldn't you want to give those people hundreds of millions of dollars?

And if you think that writing a JS interpreter is the only hard part of a browser engine, have I got news for you.

robinhood•1h ago
Clearly you haven't been following what Ladybird's team have been doing in the last months. With almost no resources, they've created this web engine that is almost at par with the giants.
timeon•34m ago
If I understand it correctly, Ladybird uses Skia. So they are also benefiting from those "billions poured over Chrome".
MitPitt•2h ago
These 2 projects are so different in complexity. Ladybird is a foundational ground-up browser, meanwhile Omarchy is just an opinionated arch setup. I wonder why they were both mentioned in one article.
leoc•2h ago
I think it’s likely the politics, I’m afraid: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45334359
hakunin•1h ago
For one, I don't think complexity is determinative of impact. At least I hope not, otherwise my startup ideas are all DOA. For two, Omarchy is becoming more complex as more maintainers come in to write way more automation. You can kind of foresee where this is going: an Arch wrapper slowly growing into effectively a separate OS that's pushing other software to accommodate its choices. (See getting chromium to support live theme reloading, trying to get Fortnight to support Linux, etc).

IOW, Ladybird has depth, Omarchy has breadth.

sylens•2h ago
The momentum that Omarchy seems to have is impressive. I wonder if a tighter collaboration with Framework is in the cards, especially with their founder and CEO submitting pull requests to the project[1].

[1] https://github.com/basecamp/omarchy/pull/1368

jwhiles•2h ago
hmm. Increasingly it feels like I shouldn't be using cloudflare.
odie5533•1h ago
I too hate when companies sponsor open source projects.
jwhiles•40m ago
sponsoring omarchy is, to all intents and purposes, sponsoring DHH. Not someone you publicly associate your organisation with him unless you want to send a certain message.

This announcement is just cloudflare saying ‘we are the proverbial nazi bar’

pmdr•30m ago
> Not someone you publicly associate your organisation with him unless you want to send a certain message.

... that you like Linux, Rails and despise Apple?

gsibble•2h ago
I don't use it myself since I'm a long time Linux user, but I'm a big fan of Omarchy brining Linux to the masses. This is great that Cloudflare is sponsoring it!
account42•1h ago
> Supporting the future of the open web

This really is some orwellian language coming from Cloudflare.

icar•1h ago
I'm well into the Linux world and have been for years. I've never heard of Omarchy. Do they also sponsor the same way projects that are the basis of Arch Linux, for example? I'm thinking about pacman, infra, etc.
Perz1val•1h ago
It's a very new "distro". DHH (that ruby on rails guy) shared it like 3 months ago as a distribution of his configs, then it grew rapidly.

https://youtu.be/I5Mnni7cea8

captainepoch•1h ago
Ladybird is doomed with this.
pkulak•42m ago
Why is it that Servo has been around for ages, chugging along, making progress, and then Ladybird comes along and gets, pretty much instantly, anointed as the last great hope against Chrome? What does everyone else know about Servo that I don't?
sauercrowd•36m ago
I can think of two reasons - it's a browser engine, not a browser - it was created and maintained for the longest time by mozilla, before the linux foundation took over a couple years ago. That creates history and governance that I could image puts of contributors or the broader excitement
pmdr•21m ago
ITT: some of you would rather see Omarchy fail and thus Linux desktop adoption slowed down because you don't agree with DHH's 'controversial' political views.

Guess we'll have to keep waiting for someone with a 'clean' record to show up and promote Linux.

nerpderp82•14m ago
How about Cloudflare stops penalizing non-chrome browsers with elevated rates of bot checks and captchas?
hshshshshsh•8m ago
DHH has gone full racist mode. Probably not a good idea to sponsor a racist. And it's not like he needs the money any way.

Especially Cloudflare's commitment on DEI.

https://tekin.co.uk/2025/09/the-ruby-community-has-a-dhh-pro...

https://www.cloudflare.com/en-gb/diversity-equity-and-inclus...