No response yet (due tomorrow BTW) from: Vanderbilt University of Texas University of Arizona
One potential reason to select a diverse set would be to point to a few who may be forced to accept by their state governments as examples to paint the refusers in a negative light.
I first realized this decades ago when I ran into someone socially who started on about how evil the red cross was. I'm like wtf? Then did some research and discovered some fringe belief originating in the Vietnam war. There are thousands of oddball grievances like this.
But I think the way the US is set up (districting, gerrymandering, redlined, electoral college, etc) makes it far too easy for fringe beliefs to take over and dictate policy. So having states simply being more independent puts up far more barriers to all of us just losing our freedom.
I live in IL. (Not near Chicago). My kids public school only gets about 15% of its funding from the federal govt. We could just finally stop having our stupid flat income tax and make up the shortfall. It might set back the universal preschool system, perhaps (which would be a tragedy but better than complete destruction).
Meanwhile, schools might not even exist in many other states if federal funding disappeared.
Fight back against _what_? Look: our universities really do need reform, and the perceptive observer should be able to see that independent of political opinions. The current administration may be an imperfect vehicle for reform, but I don't see anyone else trying.
In particular, universities need to return to pursuing truth. Not every department at every school has abandoned the goal of seeking pure knowledge, granted, but the reality is that many have oriented themselves towards building a "better world" by preaching (there is no other word) the "right" ideas well past the point where they intersect with the real world.
It is damn hard for me to muster sympathy for the universities. I recall that they spent a decade demanding statements of ideological affiliation as a precondition of hiring, that they pollute the epistemic commons by suppressing inconvenient facts, and that they rationale injustice against individuals by gesturing at universal, cosmic justice that they claim they alone have the power to discern.
I see no reason to send public money to seminaries that have murdered universities, donned their skins, and demand respect as institutes of knowledge.
The universities can stop the pain any time they want. All they have to do is recommit, seriously, to free speech and free pursuit of knowledge.
What the universities are doing now is not conducive to scientific knowledge either. In fact, they produce a lot of anti-knowledge.
> they produce a lot of anti-knowledge
Regardless of the hilarity of that phrase being associated with universities over the attention driven news and internet that is both: 1. Meaninglessly broad and intentionally vague 2. Part of the process of science. For decades most of the genome was believed to be garbage. It was through academic research that this knowledge has been rebutted and replaced not by politics or regulation. This identical process occurs from philosophy to gender studies and physics to climate science.
Saying "this private entity censored so now the government can" is not the argument you think it is.
If they want to be free and private, they can do so with their own money.
That said, as a fly on the wall, my obvious observation from people at large is a direct correlation between how much power they believe states should have and whether or not they belong to the party in power. So it's definitely worth the exercise of seeing if you'd feel the same way still if your exact clone ran the federal government.
The neverending struggle of course is what does one consider a human right.
Let’s say we get rid of Medicare, Medicaid, social security, and research funding at the federal level. What happens next?
The West Coast and North East form compacts, companies, or nonprofits that provide healthcare, retirement and funding for their schools. The south, parts of the Midwest, and the plains fail to do so (at least to the same level) and within a generation we have two separate countries and war.
1.Equality in admissions- with certain exceptions, universities have to publish and commit to objective criteria for accepting new students.
2.Marketplace of ideas and civil discourse - a bit vague, but basically calling for non violent exchanges of opinions and ideas, specifically not discriminating against conservatives, who frankly are a significant minority at universities.
3.Nondiscrimination in faculty and administrative hiring
4.Institutional neutrality - frankly i'm not sure what that's supposed to mean
5.Student learning -Signatories must make certain “grade integrity” commitments, including neither “inflat[ing]” nor “deflat[ing]” grades for any “non-academic reason.”
6.Student equality -Signatories must treat students “as individuals and not on the basis of their immutable characteristics, with due exceptions for sex-based privacy, safety, and fairness”
7.Financial responsibility - a raft of ideas aimed at protecting students
8. More restrictions on foreign student admissions etc.
9.enforcement
[1]i got all my information from this article:https://www.ropesgray.com/en/insights/alerts/2025/10/white-h...
The only unnecessary part is explicitly calling out conservative opinions, some of which will have no place in some university subjects, e.g. a geology student insisting the Earth is 6000 years old.
The entire no kings protest is exactly about that - executive overreach overriding will of the people and causing irresponsible harm.
When executive demands something of private citizens and private entities, it means they are bossing over said people/entities. Nobody elected the executive to boss over people. When Congress attempts to set these same regulations, these entities get a chance to reach out to their reps and ask for changes. When Congress sets regulations, power is dispersed among 400+ reps.
You are thinking about the outcome of the regulations feeling the same. "No kings" are demanding that the means to setting rules be distributed among reps - when the rulemaking is distributed, you'll find that the rules demanded will change - because most people don't want these exact rules as they stand. And they don't want to submit to a fickle corrupt executive who will change these rules selectively on a dime on a random Friday.
This appeals to a dangerous view of morality where some entities/people are good/bad intrinsically and all their actions are good/bad by definition.
Hell, this is the whole logic of the American Republic - no kings - since 1776.
"Reasonable" is a distributed discovery process. A unitary order can never be "reasonable".
If they were to come from Congress, they'd never pass as they stand because these entities would demand their elected reps don't let this pass
There's really no point trying to reform universities. They're completely dominated by ideological extremists who will go to the wall to preserve their academic freedom to be racist, sexist and full of intellectual fraud. Society doesn't need them either. The few professions that really need extensive technical training can run their own schools. The research is best done in corporate labs. The world doesn't need millions of P-hacked social studies papers.
That's preposterous. It's obscenely disingenuous to now pretend that DEI was about class and economic status. Are women just poorer? Are Asians just richer? Please.
Basically, this is the government having a direct hand in dictating what the schools that receive government funding can say and do, full stop.
Further, this is a potential violation of the current administrations desire to eradicate DEI as this compact literally promotes DEI. So it's an odd request.
It's also a massive violation of the freedom of speech.
> Signatories shall maintain institutional neutrality at all levels of their administration. This requires policies that all university employees, in their capacity as university representatives, will abstain from actions or speech relating to societal and political events except in cases in which external events have a direct impact upon the university.
So, no one employed by the university can speak about societal or political events unless it has a direct impact on the university. Imagine not being able to talk about modern events in the classroom? I was doing this in high school in the 90s in Missouri!
And now the administration wants to take that away.
There are many reasons this is bad. But predominantly it's this: I get to decide what any of this means. So you have to defend this from MY POV, because this establishes me as the ultimate arbiter here.
* Why me? Because it's whoever is in charge at the time, which means you need to be able to defend the merits of this when it doesn't necessarily fit your wants or needs. Which means me.
> Signatories must commit to “defining and otherwise interpreting ‘male,’ ‘female,’ ‘woman,’ and ‘man’ according to reproductive function and biological processes.”
Which is not exactly ideological neutral.
This is the original compact https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/1...
1 The Compact explicitly makes federal funding conditional on compliance, meaning that universities must either align with federal definitions of “excellence” and “neutrality” or lose access to research grants, contracts, student loans, and tax exemptions. In practice, this could establish a centralized federal control mechanism over university policies effectively nationalizing large portions of higher education decision-making without direct legislation.
Sections 2 and 4 (“Marketplace of Ideas” and “Institutional Neutrality”) appear to promote pluralism, but they impose mandatory structural changes to ensure “no single ideology dominant”. This could require ideological balancing in faculty hiring, curricula, and departmental governance. The threat of Department of Justice enforcement transforms “neutrality” into a federally monitored ideological litmus test, likely constraining academic freedom more than protecting it.
Section 6 defines “male,” “female,” “woman,” and “man” strictly by biological function and requires single-sex spaces to be maintained on that basis. This departs from current federal civil rights interpretations under Title IX and would effectively prohibit recognition of gender identity in campus policy rolling back existing protections for transgender and nonbinary students.
By forbidding universities from commenting institutionally on “societal and political events” unless directly related to operations, the Compact silences institutional voices on issues like racial justice, climate change, or foreign policy—even if faculty consensus supports public engagement. The “marketplace of ideas” clause simultaneously allows punishment of university employees or centers deemed “dominant” in ideology, directly threatening critical studies programs (e.g., gender studies, ethnic studies).
Section 8 introduces anti-money-laundering and KYC requirements typically reserved for banks, applied here to universities. It also mandates information sharing with DHS and the State Department and caps foreign student enrollment at 15%, with a 5% per-country limit. Combined with civics instruction requirements for foreigners, this moves higher education toward national security oversight and ideological vetting creating a form of state-managed educational nationalism.
The enforcement section deputizes the Department of Justice to investigate compliance and allows it to reclaim all federal funds and even PRIVATE contributions during a violation year. This mechanism represents an extraordinary form of financial coercion that could bankrupt noncompliant universities, effectively forcing universal submission or privatization.
I don't think this is meant to be funny but it definitely is.
What the Feds are doing here is just a hop skip and a jump from forcing universities to hire young Earth creationists alongside archaeologists, climate change deniers alongside climate scientists, etc.
Universities and the research they do must inform politics, but the reverse risks destroying the research enterprise all together.
Consider crime. Restorative justice has failed everywhere it's been tried . Utterly. Comprehensively. Totally. Everywhere it's tried, restorative justice increases crime and degrades the public spirit.
Yet universities continue to push it, despite all evidence, because it flatters a certain worldview. That this viewpoint is universal in academia isn't the organic victory of a good idea, but ideological groupthink that becomes a menace to society when it escapes the quad.
And it's not only that equitable justice is the dominant viewpoint: it's that no competing viewpoint are allowed. To disagree is to be a bad person, and universities today wield every institutional weapon they have against "bad" people who hold "bad" ideas. This is not an environment conducive to knowledge formation.
No university department that pushes "equitable justice" as summa bonum should receive public money. It's just nonsense.
So it is for many university programs these days. As J.S. Mill wrote: "He who knows only his own side of the case, knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them. But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side; if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion."
> So it is for many university programs
There should be a 'marketplace of ideas' which absolutely does not mean that your ideas should be the only ones you identify in universities. It doesn't even mean that you should see your ideas in any university. Just that, if you make suasive statements, you will attract followers—and maybe you can go ahead and make your own university.
The real problem that this sort of 'DEI-killed-all-intellectual-sophistication' arguments elide is that we're not educating our children (any of them, purple, green, or whatever race you wish), and instead are feeding them social media and other attention-grabbing things.
On top of that, those of us who follow right-of-center media now have this continual push to believe even more far-fetched things daily. So how can you possibly imagine that right-of-center thinking will have a place in the marketplace if one element of being right-of-center is rejecting truth?
Universities? Can you point to a university whose explicit policy is restorative justice? That’s not how universities generally work. You’re probably taking issue with an individual department which naturally has a certain research and academic history.
Are you prepared to cite the works prepared and researched by individuals at a university or lab which counter the research on restorative justice?
If not then either it doesn’t exist and we’re operating on anecdata or it does exist and the research system is proceeding exactly as intended. You are also comparing the outcomes of policy to the work of scientists and philosophers without analyzing the specifics of imperfect policy meeting an imperfect world.
Research and knowledge work in general is often wrong. That’s not the point. For decades large parts of the genome were believed to be garbage. That wasn’t amended by the government it was amended by researchers following the scientific process. The politicization of the process doesn’t speed it up, it simply introduces an outside malignant influence to an otherwise slow but steady process of inquiry.
But surely it also can't be the case that colleges demand what are basically declarations of political allegiance in the form of DEI statements, institutional trust is nosediving and ideological capture is to blame in large part. I hope this push from the administration fails, but I also hope something changes because otherwise the result is going to be worse than if universities actually submitted to these demands.
Most universities have moved away from those.
Whatever the mechanism, they remain echo chambers and continue to present, as the only truth, systems of thought that diverge from objective reality and that poison the public discourse.
Is straining to carry the rest of this sentence. I responded to an assertion that a policy by certain limited universities was attempted and deemed unfit by the natural process was still active. This is how institutions grow and evolve.
> echo chambers
Publish your papers, rebut the research. This is actively happening every day in every field of science. It is happening in everything from gender studies to particle physics.
> poison the public discourse
What on Earth are you talking about. What public discourse are you frequenting which is driven primarily by this boogeyman of the university system rather than the attention driven rat race of national fear politics.
What topics? I have a hard time taking comments like this seriously as it reads like you have a persecution complex while your guy just got elected and they control all three branches of government. Surely if they actually cared about solving this existential problem, they'd gather input from everyone and write legislation for it? No?
Because while I agree that
>The pursuit of truth is difficult and has its pitfalls but it naturally leads to the dominance of certain viewpoints
I'm certain that demanding essays from which you could perfectly predict voting patterns is not the mark of viewpoints that prioritize the pursuit of truth.
But i still think its possible for academics to get into echo chambers. They are human just like the rest of us. Especially in fields not easily subject to direct experimental verification. I think its important not to put researchers on a pedestal as if they are above folly. (After all, the saying "science advanced one funeral at a time" didn't come from nowhere)
This is known in the scientific, philosophical, and research communities. It is a reality that is only solved by the slow inexorable application of the scientific process and exchange of ideas, not by outside political influence.
We should never put researchers on pedestals, but the process of science is the most prized accomplishment of humanity. It is a farcical weaponization of the slow and often backtracking nature of science by the anti-intellectuals of the world which we are witnessing now. Not a real crisis
It's good that this is being reversed. It turns out that many who are celebrating it are liberals and minority members. The Progressive media doesn't cover much of them but we see them elsewhere. Their ratings are plummeting which shows their viewers are tired of what they're doing.
All of these trends started with Trump who seems to be the only person willing or capable of handling it. A wicked man to be sure but very helpful in breaking Progressive's control of institutions. Also, showing their hypocrisy as they complain about people doing to them what they've been doing for decades now. If it's so bad, they should likewise cease all ideological activities in all institutions. (They won't.)
It sadly does not mean that universities are laser-focused on seeking truth, and are free from ideological biases, often very obvious. Regarding truth, one of the leading theories in humanities is that of Michel Foucault, which states that there cannot be any objective truth, and what is considered true is determined by power structures.
I'm glad to see though that the four universities are making a stand, and value independence above whatever "federal benefits" the administration may offer. It's sad that these are only 4 out of 9.
andrewflnr•1h ago
quickthrowman•1h ago
They should have noted this in the article we are discussing since it does change the story, as you said.
overfeed•1m ago