https://element.io/blog/mas-migration-unleashes-element-x-on...
I can't find any other communication from Element Creations other than that.
The renaming to Element Classic doesn't bode well considering that Element X still doesn't support a vast number of home servers and a number of Synapse authn/authz features.
If they remove it from the app store, my advice for my users is going to be to switch to fluffychat, and I'll eventually migrate away from Synapse to some flavor of Conduit.
It also does not have parity by having deliberate breakage like calls.
It's a sluggish buggy mess, so I guess you could say it has parity in that aspect.
If you're talking about the old Element Classic mobile app, then yes, it's now been replaced by Element X (which now has spaces & threads support, and so pretty much has parity with the old app), and it is super fast, and not buggy.
For XMPP/Matrix/etc. there are plenty of (more) native alternatives but they're not as feature complete as Telegram or their Electron counterparts, unfortunately.
My lack of C++ and Qt experience has still managed to keep my urge to rip out the Telegram protocol and replace it with something else. Maybe I'll try throwing AI at the problem and release a slop POC. Secretly, I'm hoping someone else will do the hard work for me...
The mobile apps for all are fine, though. Electron hasn't hit mobile phones just yet.
bilal4hmed•2h ago
singpolyma3•2h ago
bilal4hmed•2h ago
candiddevmike•2h ago
jeroenhd•1h ago
If Signal works well, you shouldn't need to validate what code is running on the server in the first place.
tredre3•1h ago
If you reject that on the basis of "we can't know if it's what they're running" or "it's a partial dump", then I don't see how Matrix is any different. Not only we can't know if Matrix servers have modified software, but we also have to trust/verify several servers instead of a single one.
dijit•2h ago
Signal is widely regarded as the gold standard for centralised E2EE, but its architecture forces you into two massive, non-negotiable trust compromises:
1) You must trust the Signal corporation with all your metadata. Every routing and handshake detail passes through one single choke point that they control. That is an unacceptable risk for security-minded users.
2) You rely completely on Signal to truthfully publish a pre-compiled binary that actually reflects the open-source code. For the vast majority, this is unverifiable in practice. It's a critical client-side act of faith.
Matrix’s design fundamentally eliminates these single points of failure, shifting the root of trust squarely to the user (or a group you trust):
1) Self-hosting; This is the game-changing feature. Host your own Synapse/Dendrite instance. Your metadata never leaves your control. You move the trust boundary from a corporation to yourself. You genuinely achieve "no communication outside your control."
2) Matrix uses an open specification. You can use FluffyChat, Nheko, or Element. This breaks the coupling between the server and the client. Even if you rely on a third-party server, you can use a client built by a completely different team, making the client-side code independently auditable and verifiable across projects. This is the ultimate defence against subtle backdoors in a single vendor's binary.
TL;DR: Signal offers "trusted third-party" crypto running on a single, unauditable binary. Matrix is decentralised, verifiable zero-trust communication. The comparison isn't about the strength of the AES key or which data it has been applied to; it's about the architectural freedom to not have to trust another entity with either your data or your code. That freedom represents an essential leap in trustworthiness.
Etheryte•1h ago
dijit•1h ago
Not that I'm into karma farming (or that it even means anything), but it irritates me to think that people are gaming the discourse here.
There's an implicit groupthink when it comes to seeing greyed out comments; to the point that people may (and do) think that the comment is non-factual or at the very least unpopular. This is especially true in subjects that are critical of Signal.
Etheryte•1h ago
dijit•1h ago
Just weird that they all found my comment at the same time.
.. and it happens, every time, a slow build up of points, maybe some ups and downs, then suddenly it falls off a cliff. It's.. it's too perfect.
Etheryte•54m ago
> Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents, and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data.
[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
nxor•1h ago
jazzyjackson•18m ago
heinrich5991•2h ago
[1]: https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-spec/issues/660
some_furry•38m ago
https://soatok.blog/2025/02/18/reviewing-the-cryptography-us...
https://soatok.blog/2024/08/14/security-issues-in-matrixs-ol...
Signal uses a whole suite of modern cryptography, including post-quantum ratchets for key agreement and zero-knowledge proofs for group membership.
Meanwhile, Matrix has a plaintext mode and knowingly shipped libraries with side-channels for years, by their own admission (and left many clients in the ecosystem depending on the vulnerable C implementation when they rewrote their cryptography protocol in Rust).
Even today, they are not the same protocol. Olm/Megolm is distinct from Signal in a lot of ways that I've outlined in my previous blog posts.
I don't particularly care if people like Matrix, but please don't spread falsehoods about the cryptography being used.
_def•2h ago
In the matrix ecosystem, as far as I understand, having only one user from the matrix.org homeserver in your room already undermines metadata privacy to some degree. Also, there still are issues with decrypting messages from time to time with certain combinations of clients, rooms and homeservers, which effectively means that the "failsafe" option for getting messages across the network is using unencrypted rooms.
Having free, secure, federated, usable instant messaging is still not solved imho, and I think it's not easy to solve. So far matrix is the best attempt in my book, but it's also not there (yet?).
uyzstvqs•1h ago
IMO XMPP is the best attempt so far, but it's completely outdated by today's standards. Matrix is a modern attempt, but it's just bad. I doubt that Matrix will actually get anywhere usable in the future.
It's absolutely possible to build such a protocol with high performance, seamless UX, Signal's level of privacy and security, and Discord's level of features. It's just a lot of work to actually build the specifications and flagship implementations, compared to just building a good centralized option.
_def•1h ago
And yeah it's definitely possible, but it's a lot of work, both technically and from an organizational perspective (funding, governance, etc).
jeroenhd•2h ago
On the other hand, you can host your own Matrix server and still participate in the network, whereas Signal will have you convince your friends and family to install a custom Signal client if you want to run your own Signal server, for instance because you don't want to rely on Amazon's servers (Signal was down when Amazon went down this morning).
Signal sacrifices network openness for encryption capabilities.
There's also the MLS/MIMI side of things, but AFAIK that work hasn't been completed yet (MIMI isn't even a full RFC yet).
Element/Matrix, with some modifications, has been chosen as the messenger of choice by the French government (Tchap) as well as the German military (BwMessenger, BundesMessenger) and healthcare (TI-Messenger).
nxor•1h ago
dijit•1h ago
Seems like the majority of the team are in the EU anyway: https://matrix.org/foundation/about/
nxor•43m ago
dijit•38m ago
Yes, sort of.
The thing is, the government is already not permitted to wiretap people, at least without reasonable suspicion.
Wiretaps themselves are not admissible in court, and can only be offered as a mechanism to correlate behaviour anyway. At least in the UK. (Which, is ironic when you consider what's going on there with online speech, but I digress).
Factually speaking, in order to do a crime you have to physically do a crime, the police knowing when and where do not require access to your communications to figure out. They will sting people, get people to turn on other people or simply catch red-handed when doing ordinary police work.
If we legitimately believe what the governments of the world are saying: that we need to embolden the police. Then funding them properly is the right start, yet nobody seems to be doing that. The EU has been making cross border communication easier though, which is in-line with emboldening the police, so I'll give them that.
Having more information will do very little to help, for the same reason that phone taps aren't given out freely (and never have been) - because even if you have the data, you have to choose how to act on it.
There is a distinct irony that unencrypted SMS is more secure than online messengers, because there are legal protections.
nxor•27m ago
dijit•22m ago
detaro•15m ago
bigstrat2003•9m ago
Probably. But criminal organizations also benefit from having electricity, or cars, or a million other things that we all would be much worse off if we didn't have them. Just because something benefits criminal organizations as a side effect is not really a reason to not do it for the benefit of ordinary citizens.
jeroenhd•52m ago
BwMessenger is a partnership with "ELEMENT SOFTWARE SARL" (according to https://messenger.bwi.de/datenschutz), the French entity of the commercial side of the people originally behind the open Matrix ecosystem (https://element.io/legal/company-information). I'm not sure why the French entity is doing business with the Germans as Element also has a German entity, but either way the American side is not the one doing the work.
For the American entity, a lot (most?) of the work that's not from unrelated open source contributors seems to be coming in from either EU countries or the UK.
nxor•41m ago
jazzyjackson•24m ago
the_gipsy•1h ago
basilikum•32m ago
Matrix does not even encrypt emoji reactions.
fsflover•19m ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42788647
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39445976