Libera.chat seems to say that even if Ofcom thinks they have a case, they don't as Libera's user base doesn't have enough UK users:
> The exact fraction of the UK’s online population that must use a given service to be considered “significant” is unknown, but based on our counsel’s observations of Ofcom’s previous regulatory actions, it appears to be much higher than our internal estimates of how large our UK user base is.
Related submission with 788 comments from ~1 week ago: "4Chan Lawyer publishes Ofcom correspondence" - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45614148
their entire post is sophistry and wishful thinking, neither of which will work if ofcom decide to go after them
the intention of the OSA is to attempt to regulate user-to-user communications services, of which IRC is one
they're probably right that they're near bottom of the list though
(at least until this blog post ends up on their desk monday morning)
You're right in the sense that they can pursue whomever they want based on whatever interpretation of "significant" they may hold. But it is not Ofcom that ultimately decides on the meaning of the term, that is for a court to decide and that court would likely rely on the same authorities and principles that Libera's lawyers did in their advice.
assuming of course libera don't fold the moment they receive a nastygram ("enforcement notice")
like they did when andrew lee commandeered freenode
1. Arrest the founders or officers at the UK border if they attempt to enter.
2. Direct UK ISPs to block access to their services.
Let's see if they are so PR-insensitive that they will want to actually do that.
Libera.chat: an IRC network
LibreChat: an open-source chat application that supports multiple AI models and provides a UI similar to ChatGPT
I was only familiar with the latter, which is a very cool and useful project. Currently reading up on the prior.
That feels like a kinda "duh" thing? Even though the UK believes they can enforce this law abroad, if I were running a service outside of UK jurisdiction that would otherwise be subject to the Online Safety Act, I certainly wouldn't comply with it.
I don't intend to ever travel to Russia or North Korea, but that's not some trivial anecdote about modern life, those are regimes so hostile to rule of law and individual safety that it's not reasonable to travel there.
What if there's a conference you want to go to, but it's in the UK? Or you have friends you want to visit? Or family, or whatever.
That's also an egregious degradation of the UK's position with regard to Western-norms around personal liberties, which itself is worthy of remark.
I’m more afraid that anglosphere is showing the way for the rest of west-y world. Looking at chat control stuff and all that jazz, it’s matter of time same stuff becomes a thing in the rest „free“ world.
And now the UK joins the ranks as well. I should add that the US is also a member of this club if you’re foreign or you appear to be foreign, we are no paragon of virtue either.
Genuine question.
Is it just me or is this not super confidence inspiring for what happens in the future? This just seems like an arbitrary time in future when they either have enough UK users or if Ofcom suddenly lowers or entirely removes the arbitrary "size" estimate, OSA will become applicable? As far as I can tell, we don't even know what this arbitrary "size" estimate is?
This kind of a memo is a useful CYA. An interpretation of the current situation and likely risk factors, and when the situation changes in the future, an artifact that justifies their current non-compliance. Will Ofcom/courts accept it and not require compliance if the situation changes? No, but it might eliminate or reduce penalties for non-compliance.
* At least reassures their users that they are doing their best, at least, even though that might not be much.
* Emphasizes the difficulty of the situation that the UK created.
* Shares, at least, a description of the advice they got (properly caveated that they or their lawyers weren’t giving anybody actual legal advice).
This would also probably help sway the public opinion in the UL to stop electing representatives that come up with laws like this - so a win either way.
https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/britons-back-online-safety-acts-...
Middle England is conservative and authoritarian.
If you consider all we know about the excesses and influences of big tech companies, and then blunt that down to a more lay perspective, it's pretty easy to understand why we've landed up here.
People have lost faith in us.
UK should not be able to regulate nature of photons being sent from outside of their borders.
What am I missing?
jamesbelchamber•3h ago
Interesting - this implies that the vast majority of niche communities are not considered to be in scope, so long as they're not on a service like Discord I guess.
delichon•2h ago
kelnos•2h ago
It's just a variation of selective enforcement.
CaptainOfCoit•1h ago