The engine had a unique characteristic whine or whistle. As an avid train spotter at Waverley station in edinburgh I loved hearing it, saw every one and was in the cab of two thanks to long suffering kind engine drivers.
There was a mini deltic too. I'm not sure it went beyond a testbed loco.
I have dim memories of being held up over a bridge to watch steam trains pass, but by the time I was obsessively writing down numbers they were special trains like "Sir Nigel Gresley" and "the Flying Scotsman"
I left britain before the east coast electrification. I do still see my favourite type 8 Diesel shunter, the most ubiquitous kind in Britain, when I pass by.
Any tech that includes the word “scavenged” must be cool and efficient
Generally speaking at least, two stroke diesel engines weren't super efficient, but did offer great power output relative to their size.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napier_Sabre (1938).
Powered the absolute monster that was the Tempest (up to the Mk 2 - they did have reliability issues they never quite solved but 3000+HP out of an engine that weighs barely more than a tonne dry will do that)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawker_Tempest
Was happy to see the name re-used for our upcoming fighter.
We also called the Eurofighter the Typhoon and the (WW2) Typhoon (also a Sabre engine) was the predecessor of the Tempest - it started as a re-wing of the Typhoon but enough changes where made to give it a new name.
Just a devastating superprop in its day.
[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brake-specific_fuel_consumptio... [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napier_Nomad
The youtube channel "Greg's Airplanes and Automobiles" has a nice video about turbo compound engines.
I must also recommend the recently-deceased legend Sebastiao Salgado's photos from Kuwait oil fires.
I watched this movie on cinema a decade ago. Highly recommended.
I have never heard of a standard class of pumps for this....other than basically finding a manufacturer who specialized in these sort of pumps.
Read the data sheets and look for those terms, or look for manufacturers of pumps that maximize both.
Seeing the test firings of the pump was pretty amazing, draining one "swimming pool" and filling another in a minute.
Though that's just gravity-fed, of course. Still pretty cool though, I think (:
Baikonur Cosmodrome: 4,800 gal/s (peak)
Space Shuttle Launch Complex 39: 7,317 gal/s (net)
Wallops: 4,000 gal/s (?)
SLS: 18,333 gal/s (peak)
Mack Super Pumper (this article): 146 gal/s (net)
Replacement new Super Pumper 1: 87.5 gal/s (net)See:
https://www.firefighternation.com/lifestyle/new-fdny-super-p...
Your basic modern fire pump unit can pump 2,200 gallons per minute (if you can find a water source that'll give you that much) and it'd typically have a crew of 4-5 firefighters on board.
So you'd probably replace it with 4 regular fire trucks? Then you've got just as much pump capacity, plus you've got the flexibility to send the trucks to different places.
Note that, for what it's worth, fire pumps are generally rated for their capacity when drafting from a static water supply (think, pond, lake, river, etc). Basically all modern fire pumps can easily exceed their rated capacity by a pretty good margin when pumping from a pressurized source, but then you're back to your point of "do you have a source that can supply that?" Still, there are ways. In my firefighting days we had some hydrants in our district (the ones on the big 30" main that ran right down the middle of the county in particular) that could individually supply 2000gpm. And nothing says you are restricted to using one hydrant! There are also all sorts of complex water supply evolutions one can run, involving relay pumping with multiple engines, drafting and using hydrants, etc.
At the major Grenfell Tower fire, the water network could only supply ~4,320 litres per minute (1141 us gallons per minute) [1] despite firefighters asking the water suppliers to maximise the water supply.
And that fire was attended by seventy fire engines and two hundred and fifty firefighters, as they needed pretty much all the breathing apparatus in the city. So they had substantially more pump capacity than they had water available.
[1] https://www.insidehousing.co.uk/news/lfb-did-not-follow-even...
Also wondering: what replaced this!
(Ed: great reply from Mindcrime. Also, the new Ferrara Super Pumper shows a very impressive ribbed(?) 8-inch "hard suction" hose! There's a whole wikipedia section for these drafting/vacuum hoses: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suction_hose)
When pumping a fire engine supplied by a hydrant (or any other pressurized source, as opposed to drafting from a static water source like a pond or lake) there's an idea of "residual pressure" which is monitored by a gauge on the pump panel. The engineer is responsible for making sure the residual pressure doesn't drop below the level where damage would occur to the water system, supply hose, or the pump itself. It's been a few years, but I think most departments spec somewhere around 20psi as the minimum residual pressure they allow.
Also wondering: what replaced this!
The Super Pumper[1], of course! :-)
The new one isn't quite as extreme, not tractor drawn and no separate engine. This is more of a traditional fire engine style platform, but the specs are still pretty impressive.
[1]: https://www.firefighternation.com/lifestyle/new-fdny-super-p...
A collection of smaller pumps and monitors, which is likely a better scheme, in terms of flexibility and fault tolerance. While a remarkable design, the single pump with long hoses to multiple hydrants, then radiating to multiple monitors, is a system that takes great coordination and precious time to deploy and rework in action.
The Napier Deltic engine is the party piece in all this. It is an ambitious and yet successful design, intended to push the limit of power-to-weight in a diesel engine. I investigated the state of current diesel locomotive engines in comparison to the Deltic and it remains, to this day, the highest power-to-weight diesel engine in use for locomotives. (There are half a dozen still running in the UK today in limited service.) I've personally visited the Bay City museum to see this engine.
These engines require forced induction; they cannot run naturally aspirated. In its various naval, rail and other applications there were many different induction designs applied to the Deltic: turbos, superchargers and combinations of both. Today, we have electric forced induction, enabled by the high performance electric motors that have emerged elsewhere in transport applications. One thinks of what diesel wonders might be created by combining the Deltic design with electric forced induction.
You would initially think that the ignition events would be evenly spaced, but that's not the case. For every delta triplet, the ignitions come rapidly one after another, close together in the cycle.
In that second animation on the page, showing the firing order among 6 delta piston assemblies, if you keep your eyes fixated on any of the six columns, you can see the three firing events. Always C, B, A order.
Anyway, one of the best known Chicago Turret Wagons was "Big John" (aka 6-7-3).
https://chicagoareafire.com/blog/2013/04/chicago-fd-turret-w...
https://chicagoareafire.com/blog/2013/04/chicago-fd-turret-w...
Not sure if CFD still maintain any Turret Wagons in contemporary times or not, but variations on the concept are still found, particularly in industrial fire departments that protect high hazard sites like oil refineries, certain chemical plants, etc.
Mack was awarded the contract to build the truck in 1964 and by the end of the year, the unit was nearly ready to hit the streets of NYC.
Seems amazingly fast by current standards. Those were the days!
"7000 ft" sounds wrong to me. That's over a mile of hose. Feels like that's unnecessarily long. I'd love to learn more about this. Anyone know when or what fire this was?
Which still seems like a lot, but not so incredible.
I wonder if maybe it can't even use hydrants that are too near each other in the plumbing graph.
There's a lot of variables in that equation. For example, say you have a "dead end" main that ends somewhere near the fire. If you connect to the last hydrant on the main and start flowing water, there's a good chance you won't get a lot of additional water by connecting to the next hydrant up the street. But if you connect to a hydrant that's on a main that is part of a loop, there's a better chance you'll be able to get more water by doing that.
And without getting into too much detail that would be boring to non-firefighters (probably)... there's actually two big variables for a given hydrant: the maximum volume of water it can supply (in GPM) and the pressure available at the hydrant. And those two things are related. Anyway, net-net, you can have a hydrant that is capable of - in principle - flowing, let's say 2000 GPM. But the pressure at the hydrant is only, say, 40 psi. That means you only have 20 psi (approximately) available[1] to overcome the friction loss in the supply hose between the hydrant and the engine. And that friction loss in turn is a function of the hose size and the flow rate.
Anyway, that results in a situation where you might have a hydrant that could supply you 2000GPM, but if your fire is, say, 1500 feet away, you might effectively only be able to take advantage of maybe 500GPM of that.
And that in turn leads into stuff like using a "four way" or "hydrant assist" valve, or having a relay engine sitting right on the hydrant (to minimize friction loss between the hydrant and the engine) and then using its pump to boost the pressure going to the attack engine. By using multiple engines like that, you can get closer to achieving that hypothetical 2000GPM (or whatever) flow.
It gets pretty complicated, but fortunately fires in urban areas where the municipal water system is the limiting factor seem to be relatively uncommon (but not unheard of!) in this day and age.
[1]: because you don't want to pull the residual pressure down too low or it can damage the water system, supply hose or your pump.
I've often thought about that when there's a work crisis: If I'm the second on the scene, what can I do to support those fighting the fire right now, before jumping in.
As the engine drives in it drops a 3" hose along its path. Next is our big tender with 3000 gallons. It stops at the street and connects to the dropped hose to pump more water up to the engine.
The tender also has a drop tank -- think about a portable kids' wading pool but much larger and deeper. Shuttle tenders refill the drop tank while our big tender draws from it to continue supplying the engine.
We don't have fire hydrants, so this is the dance we have to do.
* It's very important to park the engine close to the fire but not too close. Ask me how I learned this.
Also, please set up something like this or give me a link to a North American fire department that has such high production value videos: https://www.youtube.com/@BrandweerLunteren
I just love that the guy literally bikes to the fire station in like a minute and he's not even the first guy to arrive or just barely. And the others following in the van are like a couple minutes out at most. Where I am, the volunteers at the fire department have to be there within 15 minutes plus the time it takes to get to the actual fire.
(no worries I understand that the Netherlands is a much different country with regards to fire hydrant infrastructure and closeness to the station from the US / NA, at least/especially the rural US/Canada. I just want such awesome videos from other places around the globe really)
I was a farm hand as a summer job to cover beer and books in my college years. We harvested wheat which carries a high fire risk. Most farms kept a tractor with a large plow hooked up so it could quickly encircle and contain any fires.
Pulling a 40’ wide plow is hard. Tractors can do it because they have huge engines that suck in huge amounts of oxygen.
Just like fires.
If you get a tractor too close to a fire it starves for oxygen and stalls out. The plow becomes an anchor. There’s just enough time to bail out before the tires catch fire. After a few minutes the whole thing is a pile of ash and melted steel.
The wheat is harvested by “combines” which are literally a combination harvester and thresher. Both machines are extremely complex.
They’re used at 110% capacity to beat the fall rains then sit rotting for 9-10 months. Lots of seized bearings or broken bits of machines sparking and starting fires.
The grain trucks I drove had their air conditioners removed to discourage idling and the exhaust pipes dumped directly in front of the rear tires to auto-snuff exhaust fires.
1,000 isn't going to put out a house fire unless it's really small and not fully involved. The past two good structure fires we had took 20,000 and 60,000 to gallons respectively.
Our big tender never leaves the street; it's too big and too heavy for residential driveways.
We do have a brush truck for tighter spots and for use as a relay pump for extra long driveways.
That sounds counterintuitive . What about higher pressure will slow water down?
The price of the system was huge. It's a theme that as we move to better and more efficient systems they become more boring. Most of the magic of driving is lost in electric vehicles, biplanes, and the propellor planes of ww2 capture the imagination in a way jets don't. The monstrously complicated cabins of old 747s are fascinating in a way that modern far more capable planes are not. Back then you had 2 pilots and a guy whose main job was stopping the plane from falling out of the sky! Now it's a bunch of very clever computers under the cockpit that does all of that. It's worth noting that steam engine which was the driving element in the Industrial Revolution and maybe the most important invention in history was originally developed to pump water from mines. Some of these distant ancestors of modern engines are on display in London. James Watt might have predicted a pump like this, but he probably never guessed it would be pulled by anything but a team of horses!
Compare that to Sam Altmans wild prediction that agi will capture "the light cone of all future profits in the entire universe", maybe true, but it will never be as interesting as a steam engine, where the collective ingenuity of a century of engineers and metallugrists is on display in all it's glory.
I suppose that means back-pressure. More back-pressure on a pump means it can't provide such a high flow rate at the same power output because power = flow rate * pressure.
As a firefighter, the training I've had tells me that they're generally no big deal. You spray water on them to keep the overall temps down, and wait. Not a big deal. The main difference is that they don't tend to go out quickly, so you may be stuck nursing it as it burns itself out for a long time.
MisterTea•7h ago