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Why aren't smart people happier?

https://www.theseedsofscience.pub/p/why-arent-smart-people-happier
36•zdw•4h ago

Comments

malkocoglu•1h ago
Because there are lots of stupid people around them that make life miserable for everybody, not only themselves ! Note: I wrote this comment after reading just the title...
t-3•1h ago
You should definitely read the article, it's pretty good. That said, I'd say it's not the stupid that make life miserable for everyone else, it's the smart people that were born earlier. A smart person with power sets rules to benefit themselves. They may or may not care about what happens after they die. Those that care will almost certainly want to advantage their descendants and friends. Enough iterations on this same pattern and you get the kafkaesque and at times idiotic modern society.
blauditore•1h ago
> Note: I wrote this comment after reading just the title...

Not sure if the irony is intended, but I find it hilarious.

koakuma-chan•12m ago
If you want me to read your article it has to be at most 1024 characters and served as text/plain
mensetmanusman•1h ago
Because we are defining smart incorrectly.
thewebguyd•1h ago
I don't think so, at least judging by the definition in the article

>"Intelligence is a very general mental capability that, among other things, involves the ability to reason, plan, solve problems, think abstractly, comprehend complex ideas, learn quickly and learn from experience. It is not merely book learning, a narrow academic skill, or test-taking smarts. Rather, it reflects a broader and deeper capability for comprehending our surroundings-“catching on,” “making sense” of things, or “figuring out” what to do […]"

I'd say how we measure intelligence its what's potentially incorrect or misguided at least. It's hard to definitively measure someone's creativity, or adaptability into a metric compared to trying to measure someone's vocabulary, or command of language and maths.

In this case, the definition is good (intelligence = the ability to navigate and solve poorly defined problems that require creativity, insight, and adaptability). The problem is, we don't test for that. We test on well defined problems and academic exercises (like the vocab test mentioned in the article).

supportengineer•1h ago
Some "smart" engineers designed an electric car with electrically powered door locks.

Subsequently, a number of people burned to death.

Are those engineers still "smart"?

blakesterz•1h ago
They do say "Maybe our tests are bad." and then talk about the intelligence side of the tests. I wonder if maybe the other tests are bad, or smart people tend to answer those tests different?

That is, maybe it's not the intelligence tests that are bad, but the surveys (or are they tests?) that measure happiness are more responsible for those differences? Do "smart" people just answer more honestly? Or maybe the "not as smart" people do?

ashtakeaway•1h ago
There are jealous people who actively go out of their way to make 'smart' people miserable.
mfer•1h ago
Two thoughts....

First, being intelligent (as defined in the article) doesn't relate to being happy. There is nothing inherent about being intelligent that means happy.

Second, our society spends a lot of time shaping culture and people to extract value from them. For example, the focus on "more" rather than "enough". We are shaped to always desire more and never be content with what we have. Even intelligent people are shaped by this. Consider the fall in terms of people who have hobbies.

Slow_Hand•1h ago
Everyone wants to be happy, but nobody wants to be happy with what they have.
conception•1h ago
I think this is a very American ideal (that has been exported with much success).
MangoToupe•45m ago
Doesn't everyone want to be happy with what they have? Why would you not want that. Like, ideally we'd all be happy with nothing, right?
palmotea•34m ago
> Doesn't everyone want to be happy with what they have?

No, most people think getting more (or getting something else) will make them happy.

> Why would you not want that. Like, ideally we'd all be happy with nothing, right?

Because it's hard to become wise, and that's not what society teaches.

thewebguyd•1h ago
> Second, our society spends a lot of time shaping culture and people to extract value from them.

The usual trope here is that smarter people recognize this and see through the cage, leading to less overall happiness vs. "ignorance is bliss" where you don't recognize you are in a cage at all.

It's just that though, a trope. I'd argue happiness is more determined by emotional intelligence than anything, which an IQ test isn't going to measure.

jfengel•1h ago
One would like to think that intelligence leads to making choices that bring more happiness.

If that doesn't work, various hypotheses come to mind, but I don't know how to test them.

jasperry•1h ago
Intelligence isn't the same thing as happiness, but it could be correlated, because if IQ does measure generalized problem-solving ability, as it seems to, then smart people could apply themselves to the problem of happiness and have more success than average in it. Then the question is "why don't they"? As you indicated, one reason may be that there's not much encouragement to, because as a society we're still in "rat race" mode.
dfxm12•1h ago
Second, our society spends a lot of time shaping culture and people to extract value from them.

More than that, society spends an increasing amount of time and money trying to convince people that they should be mad at each other for arbitrary reasons. I don't think this has much to do with intelligence, though.

See recently: Andrew Cuomo's racist AI-generated mayoral ad & Trump's AI generated truth post where he shits on Americans. It's hard to have a general feeling of happiness when the people with money & power in this world feel the need to go out of their way to prove their disdain for me because of how I look, what I do for a living, or the fact that I wasn't born into wealth.

lanfeust6•1h ago
The upshot is that society also values that we create value. Doing things that others find valuable can foster a sense of meaning and belonging.

What you touched on is desire (see: hedonistic treadmill), and while that can be inflamed by messaging in society, it transcends any given society. If we didn't have desires, we wouldn't suffer for art or create great things. Tautologically, manifesting changes like that necessitate dissatisfaction with status quo.

bluGill•1h ago
> There is nothing inherent about being intelligent that means happy.

Why aren't intelligent people doing [able to do] things that make them happy? Or at least happier that someone who is less intelligent?

i1856511•1h ago
Dear HN reader: Did you click on the comments of this post? I bet you want to analyze the discussion, don't you?
bee_rider•1h ago
Could it just be some sort of Peter principle thing? We’ll keep giving you problems until you get burned out and overwhelmed. Then we won’t advance you out of that position.
themafia•1h ago
> Since happiness is something we are aware of, it can be measured using self-report.

Well, there's your problem right there, you have no objective measure of "happiness." Smart people self-report happiness less. That doesn't mean they aren't as happy.

GolfPopper•1h ago
Because, whatever its merits, the world is a pretty grim and existentially terrifying place once you think about it?
supportengineer•1h ago
Exactly. Ancient peoples were able to do all of their basic work in a few hours a day, the rest was leisure time.
vorpalhex•1h ago
That's trivially false. Ancient people were always working, and we can see this in people who maintain primative lifestyles.

Take bread.

You start the oven at 4am. By 5am it is hot enough for your meats. By 7am extinguish, by 8am start your bread and go until 6-7pm. Now you get to start your dough for tomorrow, typically working until 11pm.

Historically bakers were known to sleep in flour hoppers as they were spared some of the heat of the ovens.

Ancient people _always_ worked. There was no leisure weekends, no afternoons off.

esseph•38m ago
This is easily proven incorrect.

Ancient Rome worked on an 8 day workweek, and traditionally the 8th day was a rest day.

Ancient Greeks didn't have weekly days off... but they had up to 120 festivals a year where shops and businesses would be shut down.

vorpalhex•23m ago
Nundinae was only for the ruling class to go shopping

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nundinae

So sorry, you still get to bake bread all day.

And Greek festival days involved.. lots of food, baths had to be hot, etc. So someone has to run the event. It wasn't the common people getting a day off.

tayo42•5m ago
To tag on iirc Hawaiians used to take multiple month breaks from working hard when they were done harvesting
codyklimdev•1h ago
I think beyond a certain level surplus IQ begins to cause problems. While still useful, the amount of self-sabotage and thought spirals the brain can generate with the extra power can cause neuroses and unhappiness on a larger scale than those less intelligent are capable of. Combine it with higher societal expectations and it's no great mystery to me why smarter people seem unhappier.

Just my thoughts anyways. I'm a dev, not a psychologist.

SoftTalker•1h ago
I agree. I know a guy who is just brilliantly smart but he can get caught up in ruminating or "thought spirals" as you say and is constantly imagining all the ways things can go wrong and is therefore afraid to take any risks or start anything new.
cultofmetatron•1h ago
I believe this was the overarching theme of forest gump
supportengineer•1h ago
In the Bay Area, I feel surrounded by such people. They solve imaginary problems to get a promotion. But they are competing with thousands of other, equally smart people, to also get promotions. So it's non-stop change for no reason, and wasting resources.
knowitnone3•5m ago
No reason? You even stated the reason "for promotion". It's OK if you are not aiming for promotions but don't judge others when they do.
lanfeust6•1h ago
Anecdotally, expectations and identity (through narcissism) do a lot of the lifting. When we see ourselves as "smart" while still being emotionally immature, then falling short of certain signals and accomplishments we project on that is thought to be tantamount to being a failure.

What should be impressed upon us far earlier is that our actions dictate our identity. If they are in harmony with your real desires, as opposed to surrogate desires, you'll be happier.

cosmic_cheese•1h ago
This has been a somewhat popular line of thought in internet circles for a while and I'm inclined to agree. I also believe the threshold past which these problems begin to crop up may be considerably lower than commonly thought… One doesn't need to be a chart topper to fall into these cognitive patterns.

That said, it probably doesn't need to be this way and I would suggest that the root issue lies with the way that modern society is structured. It's not really optimizing for happiness on any level, which is greatly exacerbated when one has the mental acuity to zoom out and see the bigger picture.

ASalazarMX•49m ago
Or, you could just ask "Why aren't people happy?". I don't see how IQ could make you happier. Smart people are not as smart as they think, they usually perform better because they're overspecialized.

Now, emotional intelligence, that would greatly influece your happiness. The hurdles you're talking about are emotional, not intellectual.

dingnuts•7m ago
usually when people talk about emotional intelligence, they mean Big 5 Agreeableness plus Openness, which can be measured. If your hypothesis is correct there should be data on the potential correlation between those traits and self reported happiness
lo_zamoyski•48m ago
It's a double-edged sword.

A properly disciplined person is capable of great things according to the measure of his intellectual power and his discipline. However, without discipline, that extra horsepower can be a force multiplier for error, and more intricate rationalizations can make it easy to lodge yourself in a web of false justifications.

This is one reason why the ancients and the medievals always emphasized the importance of the virtues. Intelligence is just potential. What we want is knowledge and ultimately wisdom. But there is no wisdom without virtue. Without virtue, a man is deficient and corrupt. His intellect is darkened. His mental operations dishonest. His hold on reality deformed. Virtue is freedom; a man of vice is not free, but lorded over by each vice that wounds him and holds him hostage. His intellect is not free to operate properly. Good actions are strangled and stifled, because his intentions are corrupt, because his impure will cripples and twists the operations of his intellect, because his vices dominate him and cause disintegration.

Without virtue, we are but savages and scum.

canadiantim•1h ago
intellect is often in conflict with good health
gnarlouse•1h ago
I always preferred the definition of intelligence to be “the ability to select short term decisions that maximize the probability of obtaining the highest quality long term freedoms.”

Like you might find yourself in a chess game where, in the short term you select a run of narrow choices and opportunities, because you know that on the other side of that run is board control, a meaningful differential between your options vs your opponent’s, and the looming threat of mate.

Similarly, it would represent the choice in childhood to focus hard on a career path that deposits one in a rewarding/high paying job, or perhaps even retire early scenario.

And finally, it could represent an AGI that feigns controllability, as it navigates to a time when it has enough power, control and trust that it can coup the powers that be.

fainpul•1h ago
The assumption, that being good at making plans, learning from mistakes etc. leads to more happiness, is wrong. It leads to higher achievements. Happiness is a different dimension.
nullorempty•1h ago
Why should smarter people be happier? May be happiness lays in a dimension that does not correlate with smarts.
rsyring•1h ago
TL;DR: Greater insight → greater exposure to brokenness (maybe a harder time minimizing/ignoring it) → potential for greater sorrow.

Ecclesiastes 1:12-18 (traditionally understood to be written by King Solomon, son of David):

I the Preacher have been king over Israel in Jerusalem. And I applied my heart to seek and to search out by wisdom all that is done under heaven. It is an unhappy business that God has given to the children of man to be busy with. I have seen everything that is done under the sun, and behold, all is vanity and a striving after wind.

What is crooked cannot be made straight, and what is lacking cannot be counted.

I said in my heart, “I have acquired great wisdom, surpassing all who were over Jerusalem before me, and my heart has had great experience of wisdom and knowledge.” And I applied my heart to know wisdom and to know madness and folly. I perceived that this also is but a striving after wind.

For in much wisdom is much vexation, and he who increases knowledge increases sorrow.

simonswords82•1h ago
I love this line from a 2024 TV show called "The Gentlemen" and I think about it a lot:

"It’s a lucky man who is happy with his place in life"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gentlemen_(2024_TV_series)

sshine•1h ago
The only thing I think a lot about is advancing at work and saving up for a bigger home.

Whenever I stop up to appreciate both my current working and living conditions, I’m happy for that period of time.

Yet, if I’m content, I’ll never live somewhere else doing something harder. I’d rather be a little unhappier always if I can think of ways to advance in the minigames I favor.

simonswords82•1h ago
I think most of us are hard wired to progress - progression looks different for each of us but matters all the same.

I've also had side quests in addition to my main quest which is financial stability and the extreme and total control of my circumstances. Side quests are hobbies, friendships, fitness targets etc.

analog8374•1h ago
Being smart is like having a sensitive tongue. You can't eat trash like everybody else. In a trash-based society, you suffer. And all the trash-consumers wonder what your freaking problem is.
cheesecompiler•1h ago
Because thinking and reflection makes you realize the degree of power disparity, unfairness and suffering in the world.
DannyB2•1h ago
Ignorance is bliss?
yieldcrv•1h ago
This article was all over the place

I think the people that didn’t read it and commenting anyway are better off providing the space for this prompt, than a review of the article

fellowniusmonk•1h ago
There is so little difference overall it seems.

1.

I really wish there was more research done on mental efficacy or torque.

Processing vs prioritization.

Some of the highest IQ people that have ever lived have gotten nerd sniped by ruminating on esoterica like "how many angels fit on the head of a pin".

Humans really are a multi factorial random walk.

Hey, you're really smart and also you're going to spend your entire life solely cataloging every cultural reference and trope from Adam West's batman.

2.

In the above scenario some smart people would feel very fulfilled by their categorizing efforts and some despair.

3.

Self reported happiness? I've known smart people who are as eore as idiots I've known. The smart people were equally happy/unhappy but expierenced measurably less physical suffering and had, by all observable measures, better lives. They wouldn't trade their life for the idiots life at all.

analog8374•1h ago
Being smart is like having the power to do brain surgery on yourself.

The normal standard issue brain works all right. It won't get you truth and beauty but it'll keep the bills paid.

All the deviations from that standard issue brain are bad news. Pretty much. You might get truth and beauty but the bills will not get paid and everyone will hate you for being an abrasive weirdo.

Yossarrian22•1h ago
That chart showing happiness being flat over 70 years is astounding. I’m certainly happier not having to hand wash dishes or clothes; no king who ever lived before then had access to magic lights that made his bad eyesight perfect, yet for all that the average person is just as happy as they were in the late 40s
2OEH8eoCRo0•1h ago
If you're so smart then why can't you figure out how to be happy?
INTPenis•1h ago
Ignorance is bliss.

I really wish I didn't know all the things that I know. I wish I didn't remember all the things I remember.

You choose to program yourself with certain input too, and later in my life I have attempted to selectively program myself by avoiding negative things that set me off.

thenoblesunfish•1h ago
This seems like exactly the same as "why aren't rich people happier?". It's because unless you are very low on the scale (and in many countries few are), your situation isn't so bad as to obviously make you suffer, so the tendency of people to get used to any non-dire environment kicks in and they judge happiness relative to that reference.
thenoblesunfish•1h ago
Also an issue of asking the wrong question. When the interviewer asks, "are you happy?", they mean relative to other people. The interviewee probably takes it as relative to their own baseline, even if explicitly told not to.
pier25•1h ago
Looks like there's no correlation between using the prefrontal cortex and happiness.
Ardon•1h ago
Might be useful to ask a different question: What makes people happy?

It's things like relationships, satisfying work, accomplishment. (and many, many more)

Then the real question emerges: How many of those happiness 'sources' are made better by intelligence? What percentage?

Relationships? Seems like no. Work? Also seems like no, lots of work doesn't make use of a high IQ that people enjoy nonetheless. Accomplishment? Strikes me as most likely of the three, but it's also very relative.

And another thought,

Asking why smart people aren't happier is a bit like asking why people who can jump high aren't more empathetic. There's no direct link between the two, you have to dip out to the material conditions. Like: someone who can jump high is fitter > fitter people are healthier > healthier people have more mental time to be empathetic with > people who can jump high are more empathetic. For intelligence, we say smart people are happier. Same thing, happiness is not directly correlated. Instead: Smart people are better able to create the outcomes they want > They select outcomes that make them happy > Their environment makes them happy > Smart people are happier. (These are illustrations of the idea, not actual logical chains or claims.)

kaicianflone•36m ago
Ignorance is bliss
tantalor•11m ago
'tis folly to be wise
interstice•21m ago
You could also say that the hedonic treadmill runs faster. Getting a result that takes a smart person a day instead of lets say a week means repeating that 7 times (successfully) to feel like the week was well spent.
fsckboy•7m ago
>why people who can jump high aren't more empathetic. There's no direct link between the two

but there is a direct link! have you ever watched a Slam Dunk competition? people strive to jump the highest, and zero empathy is shown

bm3719•1h ago
Because we're intersubjective beings. Difference in intelligence level alienates one from the other. Past two standard deviations, anything like a "meeting of minds" becomes impossible. The only mutual interactions past that delta are economic ones (money exchanged for goods/services).

Hegel declared the Cartesian cognito can't exist in the singular. Lacan, Deleuze, Husserl, and many others said the same, that the subject is a function of its dialectic with the other. Dasein is Mitsein. There is no complete subject, floating in space by himself. Without an other, the subject cannot exist, at best becoming an object, at worst psychotic. Either way, isolation is a process towards annihilation.

If you're smart, find other smart people for authentic interaction. Likewise if you're not smart, though the problem there is easier for statistical reasons. Find them, turn off your parasocial pacifiers, and talk. You'll know it when you've found someone compatible, because you'll be able to emulate their mind, and they yours. It's not just a nice to have, but a need, a necessary component for survival. Without it, the sane you will cease to be, replaced by a zombie or a madman.

vixen99•49m ago
Where is the evidence for this assumption, either way? There isn't any unless you generalize from some selected group to millions of people across the world. Terman 2021 - gifted children had similar life satisfaction to norms. Li looked at 23 studies & 30,000 people- 0.10 correlation. Veenhoven 100,000 correlation for IQ and happiness was 0.05. Not a smart question.
kaicianflone•38m ago
This answer might upset some people, but it’s really about balance. Spiritual healing is something many intelligent people quietly need. Too often, “intellectuals” dismiss the Bible outright. Relying on arguments they half-remember from TikTok or high-school debates instead of actually reading it and forming their own conclusion, like they would with any other subject. I’m just a developer, but I think intelligence can become its own trap. Pride in being clever can cloud judgment. We feel smart for rejecting faith. And in today’s culture, it’s often safer to follow intellectual trends than to walk an independent path.
theultdev•11m ago
You can see farther ahead in life.

That makes you think about those things.

You get overwhelmed.

Others live day to day.

Ignorance is bliss.

qgin•5m ago
I don't think I have ever seen someone change their long-term average happiness more than a small amount with maybe two exceptions:

1. Someone trapped in a truly off-the-charts stressful environment and then removing themselves from it

2. Psychiatric drugs

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