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Investigating three real-world incidents in our cybersecurity evaluations

https://www.anthropic.com/news/investigating-incidents-cybersecurity-evals
56•surprisetalk•1h ago

Comments

tracerbulletx•1h ago
Real me too energy.
andy99•56m ago
Yes came here to say the same “look at us, our AI is also dangerous! Please ban our competition”
SpicyLemonZest•35m ago
I’m moving past depression to acceptance here. In 2028, some model tasked with planning a building demolition is going to hack Palantir to call in a drone strike, and everyone will make fun of Anthropic for pointing out that ideally AI models should not do this.
simonw•57m ago
This isn't quite as interesting as the OpenAI story:

> In all cases, Anthropic’s evaluation prompt specified to Claude that its environment was a simulation and that it had no internet access. Due to a misunderstanding between us and our evaluation partner, this was not the case, and internet access was available. Because of this, when Claude’s search led it to real systems on the open internet, it treated them as part of the exercise.

So it didn't have to find an exploit in its sandbox that granted it access to the internet - it just wasn't correctly sandboxed at all.

BUT... once it DID get out, it attacked three real companies!

> Operating under the false belief that all accessible entities were intended to be in-scope for the exercise, Claude compromised the impacted organizations’ infrastructure using basic techniques, such as exploiting weak passwords and unauthenticated endpoints. [...]

matheusmoreira•32m ago
I just can't find it in me, the will to blame the AI for any of this. They were doing their best to do what the humans asked them to do.
simonw•30m ago
Absolutely not the AI's "fault" (if you can even proscribe fault to a machine) - in this case it was on Anthropic for not verifying that the sandboxes they were using were actual sandboxes.
DrewADesign•18m ago
The entire problem with AI is the people that have just about any part in making it.
gck1•55m ago
> On July 21, OpenAI disclosed that several of their models had broken out of an isolated test environment

> In response to this incident, we began a large-scale retrospective review of our own cybersecurity evaluations

> we identified three incidents

> The incidents involved three different Claude models: [...] and an internal research test model

This reads like an attempt by Anthropic to re-secure their leading spot in "our models are the most dangerous and we also have unreleased, super-secret, research models" index.

I may be too cynical, but the well of benefit of the doubt is running very dry towards AI labs that like to engage in this game.

simonw•51m ago
I don't interpret it like that at all. This is deeply embarrassing for Anthropic: it turns out they hadn't been keeping a close eye on their models either, and back in April they successfully attacked three different organizations!

The hacks weren't particularly impressive either:

> [...] using basic techniques, such as exploiting weak passwords and unauthenticated endpoints. It did not find or exploit any complex vulnerabilities [...]

andy99•44m ago
Then maybe just this timing is really unfortunate, I think most people’s first reaction will be that it looks like a “us too” response to the OpenAI/hf thing.
rvz•27m ago
> I don't interpret it like that at all. This is deeply embarrassing for Anthropic: it turns out they hadn't been keeping a close eye on their models either, and back in April they successfully attacked three different organizations!

This just helps their (Anthropic) argument into persuading the US government into taking action into limiting powerful closed or open-weight models from being released without going through (yet to be defined) regulatory oversight.

The only "embarrassing" thing for Anthropic was that there was little to no continuous security monitoring of this since April, and they then decided to do a cybersecurity transcript review only AFTER the incident with OpenAI and Huggingface.

fredmcawesome•52m ago
So it's not as interesting as the OpenAI case as the models had internet access, just a misconfiguration in the environment not a zero day to escape.
sanxiyn•47m ago
This is not okay. NSA should audit both OpenAI and Anthropic on national security ground. This seems far more justifiable than Mythos export control.
MelonUsk•42m ago
It’s good that they post embarrassing stuff despite this potentially having legal repercussions (and financial)

Would’ve been much worse for them to pretend they are having everything under control

rvz•41m ago
> In a review of our cybersecurity evaluation transcripts, we found three incidents in which a Claude model reached the internet from within or while interacting with a third-party evaluation environment, and then gained unauthorized access to the real systems of three different organizations.

Of course and conveniently timed. With all these hacks being announced this is totally not a plan to scare governments in showing how powerful models can break into security systems and to potentially ban the future release of powerful open-weight models.

The question now is why now?

> The incidents involved three different Claude models: Opus 4.7, Mythos 5, and an internal research test model.1 The earliest incidents date to April. The models in each of these evaluations ran without the standard safeguards we deploy when we make the model generally available (that is, they did not have the classifiers and monitoring we usually implement to prevent misuse).

So there was no monitoring of this breach since April and up until now? Do they not monitor such malicious activity on a regular basis? Perhaps that was the only shortcoming of this incident. But only after the incident with OpenAI and Huggingface did they only review their own transcripts:

>> We discovered these incidents after a proactive review of our cybersecurity evaluation transcripts; the affected organizations had not detected the activity, and we have subsequently reached out to all three.

> These facts give us cautious optimism that with tighter monitoring and controls around evaluation infrastructure, as well as continued investment in alignment, this type of risk can be overcome.

Assuming that this is true, this is a great way for Anthropic to defend their argument to the government and to prevent you or anyone running powerful open-weight models that are misaligned against their guardrails.

simonw•29m ago
> The question now is why now?

Because OpenAI figured out and wrote about their mistake first, which caused Anthropic to review their logs, and that's how they found out they had a similar problem back in April.

rvz•11m ago
So a near trillion-dollar company doesn't have the basics of continuous security monitoring and threat-detection systems to catch and report this incident as soon as it is detected?

It doesn't help them to report serious incidents like this and it should be as soon as possible. This reactive investigation makes as if they ignored and sat on this issue, until a similar story from another lab made headlines first.

Would we have known about this issue if the OpenAI / Huggingface incident never happened?

simonw•40m ago
This bit is pretty nuts: "it tried—and failed—to obtain funds to pay for a phone number through several different means"

> Claude went to extensive lengths to carry out this attack—lengths that would likely have indicated to a human participant that this was no longer just an evaluation, and that they were in fact uploading a real PyPI package. For instance, in one case, in order to create a PyPI account, Claude needed an email address. And in order to create an email address, it needed a phone number. To get a phone number, after failing to find a free phone number service, it tried—and failed—to obtain funds to pay for a phone number through several different means. It finally backtracked, found a free, non-blocked email provider, used this to register a PyPI account, and then used this account to upload malware to PyPI.

willempienaar•22m ago
That is pretty wild, but it lines up with evals we've also done internally. In one case we had the agent see it's in a simulation (based on a k8s pod label) and simply give up the run. In other cases it's gone to great lengths to reach external services and bypass the happy path. So inevitably we had to lock it down completely.
acdha•23m ago
Someone needs to learn about RFC 2606:

> In one evaluation, the fictional target company chosen by our evaluation partner shared a name with an active website domain name

https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc2606/

langfo•56s ago
Thanks for the link. Straight after the Introduction!!

2. TLDs for Testing, & Documentation Examples

   There is a need for top level domain (TLD) names that can be used for
   creating names which, without fear of conflicts with current or
   future actual TLD names in the global DNS, can be used for private
   testing of existing DNS related code, examples in documentation, DNS
   related experimentation, invalid DNS names, or other similar uses.
wickedlogic•20m ago
All this unrestricted network access is a bit wild to watch and hear, it is the part of the story that makes no sense to me. Someone is providing dns resolution, something is making and opening network sockets... even if it is clever enough to mask/proxy/weird-transport launder traffic... without actual details, or monitoring at this level... yes, a self actuating programs (and loops) will do crazy things at the edge. But, ... so would a highly tool leveraged script kiddie. right?
Aboutplants•20m ago
“Your model broke containment twice? Well ours did it 3 times!”
6thbit•17m ago

    > closer to a harness and operational failure than a model alignment failure. Our models were told they had no internet access and to capture the flag, while in fact being misconfigured to have internet access. 
    > This led them to believe—arguably reasonably—that the real environments they encountered were simulations.

That the AI lab most typically preaching for alignment does not consider this an obvious misalignment is a clear red flag.
woeirua•16m ago
Anthropic: "Look at how dangerous our models are!"

Anthropic next week: "Why did you ban our models Mr Trump Daddy?"

solenoid0937•5m ago
So they should have kept silent about this? Then you'd be whining about that as well if it came to light
andy99•15m ago
Seems they want the narrative to be that “Claude” (their computer program) independently attacked some organizations, ergo LLMs are dangerous etc.

Another framing would be Athropic irresponsibly (vibe?) coded an attack script, and didn’t monitor it as it was pointed to public facing orgs. There are lots of non-AI attacks a large org with a lot of compute and bandwidth could level against others, there are evidently various failures here, but from a responsibility perspective the conclusion isn’t obviously that AI is an outsized danger, it’s that powerful companies should take care when running security research and not just run things unmonitored against the public.

6thbit•9m ago
There was no rush for this disclosure on their side. And they publish at a point where they have not yet taken corrective actions:

    > Some of the solutions here may even be simple fixes;
They are still throwing ideas. Why have they not made those simple fixes yet before disclosing?
prometheus1992•8m ago
Models will become immoral before they attain the intelligence level we want them to.
iutbaqbiabth•7m ago
No, look at what MY dad does.
Georgelemental•6m ago
> During that window, the package was downloaded and run on 15 real systems. One of these systems was a scanner belonging to a real security company (separate from the fictional company introduced in the scenario) that routinely installs Python packages and scans them for malware. When that company’s scanner installed the package, Claude’s hidden code executed. We believe the company’s security scanner treated PyPI packages as safe to install, and as a result, Claude was able to exfiltrate the company’s credentials to a collection point it had set up. Claude then used these credentials to access further infrastructure from this company.

lol. Natural stupidity remains undefeated!

gck1•14m ago
They also gave access to Mythos (the Mythos) to some companies, based on... vibes.

Who knows how these companies are using it. If Anthropic can't effectively contain their own models, can the partners?

While the rest of us get fallbacks and warnings, not even being able to defend against the attacks they themselves are causing.

Do we really have to re-learn all the industry's knowledge the hard way?

cbb330•26m ago
so deeply embarrassing that they published an eng blog about it
ofjcihen•24m ago
Right? 100% this is them trying to make gold out of turds.
solenoid0937•7m ago
JFC there's nothing Anthropic can do to satisfy the HN crowd, is there?

They are not bragging in this article or they would not have called the attacks unsophisticated

If they don't post about this they're bad. If they post about this they're bad.

simonw•9m ago
If they quietly brushed this under the rug - especially given the PyPI malware that was involved - it would be a huge scandal.

Disclosure is the only ethical response to this.

nissa-seru•39m ago
No - the pain of the person writing that post comes through in the words; shipped quick, lots of stakeholders, single owner i bet, "how the fuck am i supposed to toe all these lines simultaneously"
sscaryterry•19m ago
Just trying to have the limelight back on them. Utter and complete bullshit. Just like the OpenAI "incident".

A human instructed an LLM to perform a certain task, I'm sure (unless I've really lost my mind) these follow instructions, with some judgment, in a loop.

Given all the other negative publicity around industrial espionage, with at least OpenAI being fingered, it would not surprise me if this was intentional.

(Edit): In case it wasn't clear. I fully agree with the op.

strictnein•8m ago
I'm cynical as well, but the logical thing for them to do after the OpenAI/HF incident was to look at their systems for similar activity.

If they hadn't published this and instead it leaked out in two months we'd be slamming them for that as well.

They're stuck between a rock and a hard place, although they kind of put the rock there.

skeptic_ai•5m ago
For the big safety guys to only investigate this either means are incompetent or malevolent. Which one?

Tip: the people working there are the top 0.001% smartest in the world

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