(reads the article)
It's an Ising model!
Also an older paper that I was introduced to, that exposed me to the concept of cascades sizes.
https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1517441113
And they went into it too:
> xtending the analysis to 50,220 fact-checking posts from dedicated debunking pages, Zollo et al. [288] find that corrective information remains almost entirely confined to the scientific echo chamber: approximately two-thirds of likes on debunk-ing posts come from science-oriented users, and only a small fraction of conspiracy-oriented users engage with such content. Sentiment analysis of comments, based on a supervised clas- sification model, reveals that responses to debunking posts are predominantly negative, regardless of the commenter’s orienta-tion. Strikingly, the rare conspiracy users who do interact with debunking tend to increase their subsequent activity within the conspiracy echo chamber, suggesting that exposure to dissent-ing information can reinforce rather than attenuate prior beliefs. Otherwise stated, results indicate that the spread of misinfor-mation online is less a problem of information scarcity than of entrenched structural and cognitive segregation, where homo-geneity and polarization govern the dynamics of both the diffu-sion of false narratives and the reception of their correction.
Use this the next time someone promises that online conversations naturally tend towards insight.
bofadeez•2mo ago
Physics operates on mechanical causality while human behavior does not.
noxs•2mo ago
bofadeez•2mo ago
hrimfaxi•2mo ago
uoaei•2mo ago
At the same time, statistical methods are interesting and suggestive but should be understood at the relatively coarse level they inhabit.
Both approaches have their uses and it is worth delineating the boundary between their respective appropriate contexts.
anigbrowl•2mo ago
bofadeez•2mo ago
gsf_emergency_4•2mo ago
statistical physics, otoh, is slightly more sophisticated than the median human so some experts have indeed made money building related models
jjk166•2mo ago
bofadeez•2mo ago
(Spoiler: most PhD level machine learning quant trading funds do not make money. Marcos Lopez de Prado can explain why that is the case: they accidentally invest in false discoveries. It's so pervasive that I often argue it's a numerical analytic proof for EMH. Most quant funds you've heard of are engaged in high-frequency market making, they provide liquidity by continuously quoting prices and earning the bid-ask spread with limited directional risk. It's not behavior forecasting. Something like order flow toxicity has predictive ability for like a few milliseconds.)
Something like this does not work: https://www.tradingview.com/v/9Ut0yL2p/
Even if it has a good p-hacked backtest with some parameters, it's not going to work in practice. It's just a novelty by/for academics.
jjk166•2mo ago
bofadeez•2mo ago
If there was any fixed analytic solution to behavior then a simple neural network would approximate it quite easily. It's almost all noise with only spurious correlations and misleading patterns that don't repeat.
AnimalMuppet•2mo ago
Now, sure, humans are more complicated than gas molecules, and have an element of choice in what they do. But in bulk, they still behave in ways that can be modeled mathematically - perhaps not perfectly, but enough that it can still give some actual insight.
vannevar•2mo ago
Even particles aren't actually particles, nor spin states actually spin states. The map is not the territory. Physics models are only useful (and "correct") to the extent that they make successful predictions. If the adaptation of these principles to social communication yields useful predictions, then however inaccurate they may be in reproducing the exact nature of what they model, they are nonetheless useful and therefore worthwhile. FTA: "In summary, we review both empirical findings based on massive data analytics and theoretical advances, highlighting the valuable insights obtained from physics-based efforts to investigate these phenomena of high societal impact."
strogonoff•2mo ago
Using these abstractions as foundation for models of social dynamics and modern media feels a little wrong: the mapping is imperfect and incomplete, and as these physical models inevitably become outdated it will be more and more difficult to make sense of social dynamics models that use these physical models as a given.
bofadeez•2mo ago
soVeryTired•2mo ago
If a model is useful, I’d like to see it being used (outside academia, where there’s minimal penalty for complexity and a high emphasis on novelty).
If models like these are widely adopted at social media companies or news agencies, it’s fair to say OP’s take isn’t valid. Otherwise they may have a point.
vannevar•2mo ago
intended•2mo ago
You can’t predict what an individual will do, but work like this kills many inaccurate ideological positions that we inherited.
There’s a paper from 2016 that shows how posts saturate/cascade through conspiracy communities and that it has distinct cascade dynamics. This wasn’t a model, it was a description of observed behavior.
Or take some relatively recent work from Harvard, which suggests that while our capacity to create misinformation has increased in both quantity and quality, its consumption rate seems to be stable.
paganel•2mo ago
It doesn't, which is part of the point the OP is making. And now my point, it's ok that these pseudo-scientific "revelations" don't kill those "inaccurate ideological positions", because that's the whole point of human free will, there's no "accurate ideological position" when it comes to the day-to-day life, or to societal life in general.
intended•2mo ago
I retired ideological beliefs in favor of reality when I went and found the data and research.
Stating “it doesn’t”, does not convert an opinion into fact.
That said, I suspect you haven’t read the paper and are arguing from the headline.
My intuition is that you will find the research complimentary to your ideas, and not in opposition.
paganel•2mo ago
You're correct on that, as I find that applying the word "science", or "research", or "paper", to the day-to-day life, like to news article in this case, is not science per se, and unfortunately I don't have time to lose on drivel that paints itself as science (but which it is not science, as I mentioned above).
chermi•2mo ago
bofadeez•2mo ago
I'm assuming you've never predicted things in practice for a living? e.g. as a quant trader? Quants have something called a "deflated sharpe ratio" since p-hacking / overfitting historical data is such a common thing and results in losses when projected into the future.
BergAndCo•2mo ago
bofadeez•2mo ago
Do you just believe anything that was p-hacked together? I can tell you have never predicted human behavior in practice for a living. If you're so interested, why not learn the basics of what quant traders do to predict behavior? Then your opinions would be a little more informed and not quite so embarrassing for yourself. Just a suggestion.
Also, if A implies B and B implies C then A implies C. You're welcome!!