I do wish the new range would include blinds; the previous generation (FYRTUR) is out of production, and it doesn't seem like there's a replacement yet.
It depends on your setup how easy it would be, but the Zigbee stick I use for controlling Ikea stuff also has firmware available for using it with Matter. There's a good chance whatever IoT solution you use can be hooked up to Matter.
In particular note the bane of all smart homes: if you have to move the next owner won't have a clue what you did. In the worst case you have to hire an electrician (no DIY allowed since it isn't your house anymore) to rip that out so your house is livable. If you are using matter there is a chance they can start using your system in their own way. The more matter takes off the more likely this is. Also the more likely others will use it - perhaps you next house will have matter installed for you and so you can just automate it where you want to instead of rewiring the house first.
Seems like Home Assistant will launch a combo Zigbee/Thread dongle with great range in two weeks, might want to wait for that: https://old.reddit.com/r/homeassistant/comments/1opak9w/new_...
https://wizzdev.com/blog/how-much-does-it-cost-to-launch-mat...
But, yes, Matter/Thread is more expensive than Zigbee by a lot.
In theory that's a win for Matter, but I'm a little concerned about the security and enshitification problems that might cause. I kinda like the idea that I can buy a cheap IoT lock off Temu and as long as my Zigbee gateway is secure there's very little chance of that decision coming back to bite me...
I usually take my smart devices with me when I move. It's a pretty expensive thing to leave behind for a new owner that probably won't use it anyways. If someone offered me extra to leave them I might and then I'd also leave a manual.
It’s definitely complicated, but it’s a kind of usb-c of smart home - you only worry about the complex part when building a product. Just wish there was a better device reset/portability story.
I keep hoping that Ikea would come up with something that can go over a switch to manually control it. Seems like it would be very much within Ikea's target market (renters). There are devices like this on Amazon but having used them in the past they are finicky at best.
Otherwise, I used floor lights in the past with WiFi switchable sockets before I switched to ZigBee. The WiFi ones wanted to dial home.
Of course you need Home Assistant set up for this, but if you are interested in these types of things, it will be very useful.
I currently use Home Assistant but want to shift to something more “mass market” as I’m bored of being family tech support.
(I've done paid work on Matter so I'll avoid giving possibly-tainted opinions on any particular vendor's products.)
But you can do it with just Home Assistant and a Thread radio: https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/thread#turning-ho...
Personally, I pair my wifi and Thread matter devices to my Apple Home, as each Apple TV behaves as a redundant, ethernet connected gateway. I then do a secondary pairing to Home Assistant and Google Home. Local control and it works very well.
I have some Thread/Matter smart bulbs, and they work well, but Ikea joining in shows that it's finally ready for the mass market.
How would you use this and ensure privacy and security? Without investing time in becoming an amateur network engineer?
It's just a personal tradeoff between features, downsides, and risks. Most people don't consider the risks at all (implicitly down-weighting that factor), and the value assigned to the features and downsides varies by person. I have some smart lights, because I like the convenience of those lights being on voice control. My TV is "smart" but doesn't get internet because I don't consider the risk of ads acceptable.
You'll still end up being an amateur network engineer though.
1. Open/Close sensors, I would like to put sensors on my shed door and side gates that can tell me if they are open or closed. I will occassionally leave these open, or the kids may leave them open and would prefer they be closed each night. It's impossible for me to tell if they are closed at the moment without stepping outside.
2. Smart plugs. Being able to remotely operate / schedule plugs to shut off or on seems pretty nice. Outdoor lights being one usecase. Kids media area is another.
I only have experience with the first three (besides Home Assistant) and they work very well (though the SmartThings hub is somewhat limited when it comes to device support, graphing, etc.).
I should also mention that with Homey Bridge the dashboard is in their cloud, though the Zigbee/Z-Wave devices are fully local. Homey Pro is also local. (I think they have a Homey Pro Mini in the US now.)
This was exactly the nice thing about Zigbee (and Z-Wave). They're not IP networks, they basically just work with any hub, and have no way of phoning home at all. You can use them with Home Assistant or other open source tools or write your own stack if you wanted. The thing that really blows about the switch to matter, is that it is IP based, and it looks like vendors will have another opportunity to tie specific functionality to their own hubs (and probably find a way to exfiltrate telemetry). There really wasn't anything wrong with Zigbee or Z-wave that couldn't be fixed in incremental protocol revisions (IMHO), but they don't generate money the way WiFi devices collecting telemetry or hardware churn for the sake of hardware churn does.
I like Shelly's doodads. They are easy to work with, you can flash their firmware with an alternative if you want (Tasamota is popular). They have a decent onboard scheduler and the only app you need is a web browser pointed at its IP address. They don't need internet access.
I was working on some Golang code, talking to them via the very open ConBee II ZigBee gateway. Great fun, and very fast once I got subscribe vs polling working. So now I get an SMS for door access, but kinda hopefully never for a water leak.
No interest in yet another 'standard', especially since Matter seems to mandate PKI device attestation. ZigBee just feels more open to me, and I have enough eWaste devices with expired certificates.
I'm thinking about buying a Dirigera hub instead, using that for the IKEA devices and using the Conbee stick only for non-IKEA products.
Does that work flawlessly when being controlled via HA or are there other issues to be expected?
edit: Maybe even ditch the Conbee stick after all, build some ESPHome devices as replacements (temperature/humidty - or wait for the IKEA version of that).
But it was pretty stable once it was setup. Just occasional reboot on the rPI but I think that was my flakey SMS gateway code.
However, I also bought a 3 SCD41 sensors and ESP32 C3 Superminis from the most reputable sellers on AliExpress, that's been an abject failure. I wanted additional sensors in other rooms less at risk, and wanted to try using ESPHome and putting together my own soldered little devices. Got counterfeit sensors (no laser engraving on the side as Sensiron indicates is without reception the case in genuine parts) and either counterfeit or defective microcontrollers (cannot connect to wifi, even 2.4GHz WPA2, a common enough problem from my research with ). The spread from reputable sellers in NA was absolutely ridiculous and worse then buying premade pieces by a large margin.
All to say, as fun as DIY is, I'm grateful to have trustworthy products available affordably. I'll still block internet access and leave them on a dedicated IoT VLAN, but I can at least not worry it's going to incorrectly label the air quality for a child's bedroom. I'll probably pick up 3 of the CO2 sensors from IKEA, if reviews look good.
Any evidence the Ikea sensor are actual CO2 censors and not just cheap "eCO2" sensors? Lots of the "CO2" censors our there are just cheap VOC censors with an calculation to estimate CO2.
* I can fully control them without the cloud on a non-internet connected network
* I can either pay for updates, or they have free updates for at least 12 years, ideally 15
If a hurricane or tornado strikes, or some dictator tries to tell me what I can and can't do, my devices need to remain under my command.
Pros: very inexpensive, and they look great. Cons: WiFi/ble only, they feel cheap, dimmers don't support a "transition" comment, so you cant dim over time easily.
Regarding the electric switches, I was fond of bypass switches (where you can turn on/off by flipping any of the switches connected to a lamp) and made a lot of them in my apartments. Turned out not all of them were needed. I didn't need much control at home, e.g. I don't need to turn on the lighting above the kitchen desk when entering the kitchen.
Wifi switches would be cool, but it escalates everything to the unreliable realm of IP/internet devices. I'd probably vote for a controller on a lamp, and switches not actually inerrupting 230V~, but be connected with a thin and flat 12V= bus, and just signalling, and hence be easy to put under wallpapers. (5V= would be hard to send further than 3 metres.)
I personally think relays are a much more reliable than solid state switches and are very unlikely to fail in a dangerous way, and fully interupt the circuit, but they do have a 'click' some people dislike, and have a lifetime of 100k-ish switches, so for an application where you keep switching rapidly (e.g. not light switches), this might be a problem.
Ikea used Thread and Zigbee which are not Wifi, they use a mesh network and don't suffer from saturation the way Wifi does, in fact adding more devices tends to make the network more reliable since devices can route around failing or congested nodes.
I've had good experience with them in practice, but do be mindful that they share the 2.4GHz band with Wifi so in an apt building, you might run into radio channel congestion.
Personally I use smart home stuff for controlling heating devices and a few other key items, I don't think it makes sense to make every light switch smart, but technically people have done so and it tends to work all right.
As for software updates, they can be updated, but these devices are so simple they can be reasonably bug free after a while - and security's not a concern (that much) since they don't really have internet access.
Some devices were known to have vulnearbilities where the attacker was physically present to get in radio contact with the device, but those are pretty rare and impossible to exploit en masse.
How it works in Home Assistant afaik is that the border router is a piece of software running in docker that has access to the radio, and then HA talks to the thread devices via the virtual network interface of Docker.
They need to cover all the categories too (single, multi-pole, dimmer, and maybe fan speed) so I know I won't end up with a hodge podge of brands and looks.
I'll keep holding out.
It’s so darn convenient to have MQTT in the picture for home automation and my #1 challenge in imagining a future world past my 400+ ZigBee devices is what replaces zigbee2mqtt and has a similar “owner experience”.
63stack•2h ago
frenchtoast8•1h ago
wlesieutre•1h ago
Even if you're all in Ikea's ecosystem it will still mean whatever new devices you add from now on are a separate mesh network and can't use the existing zigbee products as repeaters. If the next thing you want to add is at the far end of your house from the hub, it won't have reception there with Matter until you put other new devices in between.
pta2002•1h ago
Zigbee is great for communication instead of WiFi, but it’s just one part of the equation - it says nothing about the specific commands a device will respond to. You couldn’t pair a Philips remote with an IKEA lightbulb.
Matter attempts to fix it by actually defining the protocol that these devices use. It’s also fully local and open source, which is great. The actual transport layer can be WiFi, but it can also be Thread, which is a newer standard based off Zigbee, and AFAIK some Zigbee controllers can be reprogrammed to support it.
They don’t specify what transport layer they are using here, but considering the kind of devices they are showing (battery-powered remotes) it’s almost definitely Thread.
noir_lord•1h ago
Might give it a year or three and if they continue on that path I might have to reasses my "No smart devices in the house" "rule".
[1] https://csa-iot.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/22-27349-001_...
PaulHoule•1h ago
milliams•1h ago
pta2002•1h ago
Even iPhones have been able to talk to thread devices directly for a while now, so it's a fairly transparent process.
teamonkey•1h ago
* The old Ikea Zigbee products will remain Zigbee. They will still require a Zigbee coordinator.
* The new products will be Matter-over-Thread. They require a Thread coordinator (or whatever the Thread equivalent is called).
* The existing Ikea hub has had a firmware upgrade that allows it to be simultaneously a Zigbee and Thread coordinator.
* The Ikea hub adds a Matter compatibility layer to the devices that don't natively support Matter.
j45•1h ago
Backwards compatibility is huge.
teamonkey•1h ago
But I have heard that old devices will be backwards compatible.
Latitude7973•1h ago
Thread Border Router (for info).
gorbypark•10m ago
Ikea recently did an update to enable the hub to be a Matter controller itself (over thread or Wifi). This means you can add matter devices to the Ikea hub directly and use the Ikea Home Smart app the control them instead of Apple Home or etc. You can add non-Ikea matter devices as well as Ikea matter devices (when they are released).
close04•1h ago
Matter is a communication protocol adopted by a lot of manufacturers but I think practically for the buyer the real benefit is that you no longer need a bucket of hubs for each of the device ecosystems one might use. It's more future proof so it makes sense IKEA would add support for it in their hardware including existing hubs I believe.
darkwater•1h ago
pta2002•1h ago
Matter simplifies this. It defines the API layer. You can use Thread without Matter, at which point you basically have Zigbee + IPv6, but the power comes with Matter since now every device is speaking the same language and can actually understand each other.
darkwater•23m ago
Yes you can, I did that with Ikea, Philips and Innr brands. No hub, not even Z2M involved. Yes, as you say they do need to agree on a "protocol" and AFAIK they are all following Philips lead on that, but they can totally work in a P2P fashion without any hub. They negotiate their own key, you just need to pair them with a very close distance (less than 5cm approx).
close04•23m ago
That works, I am doing the same. But the average consumers don't want to be bothered to run HA, they want things to work out of the box with minimal fuss setting up or operating. This usually meant having the Philips hub, the IKEA hub, the Samsung hub, etc.
> That's enough a proof that the issue was not in the protocol
For sure not in the Zigbee protocol, which is standard. The differences are in the logical communication protocol, at application level. Each manufacturer wanted to fully control their product, with no alignment with other manufacturers, which made devices and hubs mostly incompatible outside of each ecosystem. This is what Matter is looking to fix. One controller coordinating over a standard protocol a bunch of IPv6 devices connected via WiFi, Ethernet, or Thread.
And best part, Matter certification means the devices have to be able to operate locally. No more "cloud polling" [0] type integrations even for basic functions.
[0] https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2016/02/12/classifying-th...
whitehexagon•1h ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44507971
WaitWaitWha•1h ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45658056
edit: Feel free to down but the evidence is in the products.
Zigbee will work with any other Zigbee device if it is properly implemented. not so with Thread.
RealStickman_•53m ago