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Unexpected things that are people

https://bengoldhaber.substack.com/p/unexpected-things-that-are-people
227•lindowe•3h ago•94 comments

Launch HN: Hypercubic (YC F25) – AI for COBOL and Mainframes

https://www.hypercubic.ai/
53•sai18•3h ago•27 comments

The (Lazy) Git UI You Didn't Know You Need

https://www.bwplotka.dev/2025/lazygit/
30•linhns•2h ago•5 comments

Asus Ascent GX10

https://www.asus.com/networking-iot-servers/desktop-ai-supercomputer/ultra-small-ai-supercomputer...
151•jimexp69•3h ago•138 comments

Benchmarking leading AI agents against Google reCAPTCHA v2

https://research.roundtable.ai/captcha-benchmarking/
50•mdahardy•3h ago•38 comments

European Commission plans “digital omnibus” package to simplify its tech laws

https://www.politico.eu/article/brussels-knifes-privacy-to-feed-the-ai-boom-gdpr-digital-omnibus/
24•purpleKiwi•2h ago•7 comments

Think Weirder: The Year's Best SciFi Ideas

https://thinkweirder.com
92•mooreds•1w ago•51 comments

Interesting SPI Routing with iCE40 FPGAs

https://danielmangum.com/posts/spi-routing-ice40-fpga/
77•hasheddan•6h ago•6 comments

LLMs are steroids for your Dunning-Kruger

https://bytesauna.com/post/dunning-kruger
168•gridentio•4h ago•138 comments

Pose Animator – An open source tool to bring SVG characters to life (2020)

https://blog.tensorflow.org/2020/05/pose-animator-open-source-tool-to-bring-svg-characters-to-lif...
103•jerlendds•6d ago•12 comments

Cops Can Get Your Private Online Data

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2025/06/how-cops-can-get-your-private-online-data
177•jamesgill•3h ago•41 comments

Steven Heller's Font of the Month: Archive Matrix

https://ilovetypography.com/2025/11/07/steven-hellers-font-of-the-month-archive-matrix/
49•baruchel•6h ago•3 comments

Rewilding the Internet

https://www.protein.xyz/rewilding-the-internet/
10•thinkingemote•1w ago•6 comments

Time to start de-Appling

https://heatherburns.tech/2025/11/10/time-to-start-de-appling/
192•msangi•4h ago•150 comments

Reminder to passengers ahead of move to 100% digital boarding passes

https://corporate.ryanair.com/news/ryanair-issues-reminder-to-passengers-ahead-of-move-to-100-dig...
80•teekert•4h ago•187 comments

Beets: The music geek’s media organizer

https://beets.io/
215•hyperific•13h ago•87 comments

Installing and using HP-UX 9

https://thejpster.org.uk/blog/blog-2025-11-08/
101•TMWNN•11h ago•43 comments

ClickHouse acquires LibreChat, open-source AI chat platform

https://clickhouse.com/blog/librechat-open-source-agentic-data-stack
71•samaysharma•3h ago•23 comments

Using the expand and contract pattern for schema changes

https://www.prisma.io/dataguide/types/relational/expand-and-contract-pattern
81•tanelpoder•1w ago•33 comments

Games Preservation Is Hard and Sometimes Involves Private Detectives

https://kotaku.com/gog-preservation-program-private-detectives-drm-2000635611
72•PaulHoule•4h ago•17 comments

Modular monolith and microservices: Modularity is what matters

https://binaryigor.com/modular-monolith-and-microservices-modularity-is-what-truly-matters.html
118•BinaryIgor•6d ago•125 comments

Hacker News Headlines (game)

https://projects.peercy.net/projects/hn-oracle/index.html
20•greenwallnorway•2h ago•12 comments

Staying opinionated as you grow

https://hugo.writizzy.com/being-opinionated/57a0fa35-1afc-4824-8d42-3bce26e94ade
62•hlassiege•5d ago•35 comments

Refashion: Reconfigurable Garments via Modular Design

https://arxiv.org/abs/2510.11941
28•PaulHoule•6h ago•6 comments

Multistable thin-shell metastructures for multiresponsive metabots

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.adx4359
12•PaulHoule•5h ago•2 comments

DNS Provider Quad9 Sees Piracy Blocking Orders as "Existential Threat"

https://torrentfreak.com/dns-provider-quad9-sees-piracy-blocking-orders-as-existential-threat/
217•gslin•8h ago•93 comments

Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/law-justice/redmond-turns-off-flock-safety-cameras-afte...
79•dredmorbius•1h ago•65 comments

Ask HN: What Are You Working On? (Nov 2025)

350•david927•22h ago•1060 comments

Show HN: What Is Hacker News Working On?

https://waywo.eamag.me/
200•eamag•4d ago•41 comments

The 4.5T dollar elephant in the room

https://stevenadler.substack.com/p/the-45-trillion-dollar-elephant-in
4•DustinEchoes•2h ago•0 comments
Open in hackernews

LLMs are steroids for your Dunning-Kruger

https://bytesauna.com/post/dunning-kruger
165•gridentio•4h ago

Comments

Brendinooo•4h ago
>I think LLMs should not be seen as knowledge engines but as confidence engines.

This is a good line, and I think it tempers the "not just misinformed, but misinformed with conviction" observation quite a bit, because sometimes moving forward with an idea at less than 100% accuracy will still bring the best outcome.

Obviously that's a less than ideal thing to say, but imo (and in my experience as the former gifted student who struggles to ship) intelligent people tend to underestimate the importance of doing stuff with confidence.

shermantanktop•3h ago
Confidence has multiple benefits. But one of those benefits is social - appearing confident triggers others to trust you, even when they shouldn’t.

Seeing others get burned by that pattern over and over can encourage hesitation and humility, and discourage confident action. It’s essentially an academic attitude and can be very unfortunate and self-defeating.

Chabsff•4h ago
> I feel like LLMs are a fairly boring technology. They are stochastic black boxes. The training is essentially run-of-the-mill statistical inference. There are some more recent innovations on software/hardware-level, but these are not LLM-specific really.

This is pretty ironic, considering the subject matter of that blog post. It's a super-common misconception that's gained very wide popularity due to reactionary (and, imo, rather poor) popular science reporting.

The author parroting that with confidence in a post about Dunner-Krugering gives me a bit of a chuckle.

miningape•4h ago
I also find it hard to get excited about black boxes - imo there's no real meat to the insights they give, only the shell of a "correct" answer
yannyu•4h ago
What's the misconception? LLMs are probabilistic next-token prediction based on current context, right?
Chabsff•3h ago
Yeah, but that's their interface. That informs surprisingly little about their inner workings.

ANNs are arbitrary function approximators. The training process uses statistical methods to identify a set of parameters that approximate the function as best as possible. That doesn't necessarily mean that the end result is equivalent to a very fancy multi-stage linear regression. It's a possible outcome of the process, but it's not the only possible outcome.

Looking at a LLMs I/O structure and training process is not enough to conclude much of anything. And that's the misconception.

yannyu•3h ago
> Yeah, but that's their interface. That informs surprisingly little about their inner workings.

I'm not sure I follow. LLMs are probabilistic next-token prediction based on current context, that is a factual, foundational statement about the technology that runs all LLMs today.

We can ascribe other things to that, such as reasoning or knowledge or agency, but that doesn't change how they work. Their fundamental architecture is well understood, even if we allow for the idea that maybe there are some emergent behaviors that we haven't described completely.

> It's a possible outcome of the process, but it's not the only possible outcome.

Again, you can ascribe these other things to it, but to say that these external descriptions of outputs call into question the architecture that runs these LLMs is a strange thing to say.

> Looking at a LLMs I/O structure and training process is not enough to conclude much of anything. And that's the misconception.

I don't see how that's a misconception. We evaluate all pretty much everything by inputs and outputs. And we use those to infer internal state. Because that's all we're capable of in the real world.

kmijyiyxfbklao•1h ago
Then why not say "they are just computer programs"?

I think the reason people don't say that is because they want to say "I already understand what they are, and I'm not impressed and it's nothing new". But what the comment you are replying to is saying is that the inner workings are the important innovative stuff.

yannyu•39m ago
> Then why not say "they are just computer programs"?

LLMs are probabilistic or non-deterministic computer programs, plenty of people say this. That is not much different than saying "LLMs are probabilistic next-token prediction based on current context".

> I think the reason people don't say that is because they want to say "I already understand what they are, and I'm not impressed and it's nothing new". But what the comment you are replying to is saying is that the inner workings are the important innovative stuff.

But we already know the inner workings. It's transformers, embeddings, and math at a scale that we couldn't do before 2015. We already had multi-layer perceptrons with backpropagation and recurrent neural networks and markov chains before this, but the hardware to do this kind of contextual next-token prediction simply didn't exist at those times.

I understand that it feels like there's a lot going on with these chatbots, but half of the illusion of chatbots isn't even the LLM, it's the context management that is exceptionally mundane compared to the LLM itself. These things are combined with a carefully crafted UX to deliberately convey the impression that you're talking to a human. But in the end, it is just a program and it's just doing context management and token prediction that happens to align (most of the time) with human expectations because it was designed to do so.

The two of you seem to be implying there's something spooky or mysterious happening with LLMs that goes beyond our comprehension of them, but I'm not seeing the components of your argument for this.

ACCount37•14m ago
> But we already know the inner workings.

Overconfident and wrong.

No one understands how an LLM works. Some people just delude themselves into thinking that they do.

Saying "I know how LLMs work because I read a paper about transformer architecture" is about as delusional as saying "I read a paper about transistors, and now I understand how Ryzen 9800X3D works". Maybe more so.

It takes actual reverse engineering work to figure out how LLMs can do small bits and tiny slivers of what they do. And here you are - claiming that we actually already know everything there is to know about them.

parineum•3h ago
I'm not sure what claim your disputing or making with this.

What more are LLMs than statistical inference machines? I don't know that I'd assert that's all they are with confidence but all the configurations options I can play with during generation (Top K, Top P, Temperature, etc.) are all ways to _not_ select the most likely next token which leads me to believe that they are, in fact, just statistical inference machines.

sho_hn•4h ago
I'm not sure this is something I really worry about. Whenever I use an LLM I feel dumber, not smarter; there's a sensation of relying on a crutch instead of having done the due diligence of learning something myself. I'm less confident in the knowledge and less likely to present it as such. Is anyone really cocksure on the basis of LLM received knowledge?

> As I ChatGPT user I notice that I’m often left with a sense of certainty.

They have almost the opposite effect on me.

Even with knowledge from books or articles I've learned to multi-source and question things, and my mind treats the LLMs as a less reliable averaging of sources.

deadbabe•4h ago
If you feel dumber, it’s because you’re using the LLM to do raw work instead of using it for research. It should be a google/stackoverflow replacement, not a really powerful intellisense. You should feel no dumber than using google to investigate questions.
Insanity•4h ago
I don't think this is entirely accurate. If you look at this: https://www.media.mit.edu/publications/your-brain-on-chatgpt..., it shows that search engines do engage your brain _more_ than LLM usage. So you'll remember more through search engine use (and crawling the web 'manually') than by just prompting a chatbot.
pessimizer•28m ago
I find that it is terrible for research, and hallucinates 25% to 90% of its references.

If you tell it to find something and give it a detailed description of what you're looking for, it will pretend like it has verified that that thing exists, and give you a bulletpoint lecture about why it is such an effective and interesting thing that 1) you didn't ask for, and 2) is really it parroting your description back to you with embellishments.

I thought I was going to be able to use LLMs primarily for research, because I have read an enormous number of things (books, papers) in my life, and I can't necessarily find them again when they would be useful. Trying to track them down through LLMs is rarely successful and always agonizing, like pulling teeth that are constantly lying to you. A surprising outcome is that I often get so frustrated by the LLM and so detailed in how I'm complaining about its stupid responses that I remind myself of something that allows me to find the reference on my own.

I have to suspect that people who find it useful for research are researching things that are easily discoverable through many other means. Those are not the things that are interesting. I totally find it useful to find something in software docs that I'm too lazy to look up myself, but it's literally saving me 10 minutes.

Insanity•4h ago
I remember back when I was in secondary school, something commonly heard was

"Don't just trust wikipedia, check it's resources, because it's crowdsourced and can be wrong".

Now, almost 2 decades later, I rarely hear this stance and I see people relying on wikipedia as an authoritative source of truth. i.e, linking to wikipedia instead of the underlying sources.

In the same sense, I can see that "Don't trust LLMs" will slowly fade away and people will blindly trust them.

aabhay•4h ago
There’s also the fact that both Wikipedia and LLMs are non-stationary. The quality of wikipedia has grown immensely since its inception and LLMs will get more accurate (if not explicitly “smarter”)
derektank•3h ago
I'm not entirely convinced that the quality of Wikipedia has improved substantially in the last decade.
vablings•1h ago
Care to provide any counter-examples? Please make it know if you end up using Wikipedia for your source of if Wikipedia's quality has changed
pessimizer•48m ago
How in the world would you supply a counter-example for "the quality of Wikipedia has/hasn't improved substantially in the last decade"?

I also can't even read the second sentence. I think there are typos there, but there's no mental correction I can do to make it coherent for me.

SJMG•1h ago
I think you would need a complicated set of metrics to claim something like "improved" that wasn't caveated to death. An immediate conflict being total number of articles vs impressions of articles labeled with POV biases. If both go up has the site improved?

I find I trust Wikipedia less these days, though still more than LLM output.

djoldman•1h ago
Wikipedia probably wins here because you can link to a permalink version of an article.
sho_hn•4h ago
I don't think the cases are really the same. With Wikipedia people have learned to trust that the probability of the information being at least reasonably good is pretty high because there's an editing crucible around it and the ability to correct misinformation surgically. No one can hotpatch a LLM in 5mins.
asmor•1h ago
The best LLM powered solutions are as little LLM and as much conventional search engine / semantic database lookups and handcrafted coaxing as possible. But even then, the conversational interface is nice and lets you do less handcrafting in the NLP department.

Using Perplexity or Claude in "please source your answer" mode is much more like a conventional search engine than looking up data embedded in 5 trillion (or whatever) parameters.

tayo42•4h ago
Wikipedia is usually close enough and most users don't require perfection for their "facts"

Ive noticed things like gemini summaries on Google searches are also generally close enough.

cratermoon•1h ago
Close enough only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades
hn_acc1•54m ago
Except when they glaringly get things wrong like "character X on show Y said catchphrase Z", and two queries produce two different values of X, one right, one wrong. The more I use gemini summaries for things I know a bit about, the worse my opinion of them..
daotoad•32m ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gell-Mann_amnesia_effect
rsynnott•3h ago
> Now, almost 2 decades later, I rarely hear this stance and I see people relying on wikipedia as an authoritative source of truth. i.e, linking to wikipedia instead of the underlying sources.

That's a different scenario. You shouldn't _cite wikipedia in a paper_ (instead you should generally use its sources), but it's perfectly fine in most circumstances to link it in the course of an internet argument or whatever.

miningape•3h ago
> "Don't just trust wikipedia, check it's resources, because it's crowdsourced and can be wrong"

This comes from decades of teachers misremembering what the rule was, and eventually it morphed into the Wikipedia specific form we see today - the actual rule is that you cannot cite an encyclopaedia in an academic paper. full stop.

Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia and therefore should not be cited.

Wikipedia is the only encyclopaedia most people have used in the last 20 years, therefore Wikipedia = encyclopaedia in most people's minds.

There's nothing wrong with using an encyclopaedia for learning or introducing yourself to a topic (in fact this is what teachers told students to do). And there's nothing specifically wrong about Wikipedia either.

ok_dad•55m ago
The original rule when I was a lad (when wikipedia was a baby) was, "don't trust stuff on the internet, especially Wikipedia where people can change it at will."

Today they might have better trust for Wikipedia-- and I know I use it as a source of truth for a lot of things-- but back in my day teachers were of the opinion that it couldn't be trusted. This was for like middle and high school, not college or university, so we would cite encyclopedias and that sort of thing, since we weren't reading cutting edge papers back then (maybe today kids read them, who knows).

Edit: Also, I think the GP comment was proven correct by all of the replies claiming that Wikipedia was never controversial because it was very clear to everyone my age when Wikipedia was created/founded that teachers didn't trust the internet nor Wikipedia at the time.

ecocentrik•38m ago
There was a period of time where Wikipedia was more scrutinized than print encyclopedias because people did not understand the power of having 1000s of experts and the occasional non-experts editing an entry for free instead of underpaying one sudo-expert. They couldn't comprehend how an open source encyclopedia would even work or trust that humans could effectively collaborate on the task. They imagined that 1000s of self-interested chaos monkeys would spend all of their energy destroying what 2-3 hard working people has spent hours creating instead of the inverse. Humans are very pessimistic about other humans. In my experience when humans are given the choice to cooperate or fight, most choose to cooperate.

All of that said, I trust Wikipedia more than I trust any LLMs but don't rely on either as a final source for understanding complex topics.

ThrowawayR2•14m ago
> "They imagined that 1000s of self-interested chaos monkeys would spend all of their energy destroying what 2-3 hard working people has spent hours creating instead of the inverse."

Isn't that exactly what happens on any controversial Wikipedia page?

gowld•55m ago
Both comments are missing the reason that an encyclopedia should not be cited:

An encyclopedia does not cite its sources, and does not claim to be a primary source, its potentialymistakes cannot be checked.

(Wikipedia has the additional problem that, by default, the version cited is the ever-changing "latest" version, not a fixed and identified version.)

miningape•48m ago
You gave some good context I missed - The (even) more technical (read: pretentious) explanation is that it's a tertiary source. As a general rule of thumb secondary sources are preferred over primary sources, but both are acceptable in the right academic context.

I do understand the "latest version" argument, and it is a weakness, but it's also a double edged sword - it means Wikipedia can also be more up-to-date than (almost) any other source for the information. Thats why I say there's "nothing specifically wrong about Wikipedia either" it can be held in similar regard to other tertiary sources and encyclopaedias - with all the problems that come with those.

smw•17m ago
Maybe you haven't used Wikipedia? It very definitely cites its sources. Material that doesn't have a cited source is removed regularly.
jermaustin1•41m ago
I remember all of our encyclopedias being decades out of date growing up. My parents bought a set of Encyclopedia Brittanica in 1976 or something like that, so by the time I was reading the Encyclopedia for research on papers in the late 90s and early 00s, it was without a doubt less factual than even the earliest incarnation of Wikipedia was.

Either way, you are correct, we weren't allowed to cite any encyclopedia, but they were meant to be jumping off points for papers. After Wikipedia launched when I was in 9th grade, we weren't allowed to even look at it (blocked from school computers).

I definitely used it though.

CobrastanJorji•1h ago
A big reason for this is that Wikipedia's source is often a book or a journal article that is either offline or behind an academic paywall. Checking the source is effectively impossible without visiting a college campus's library. The likelihood that the cited information is wrongly summarizing the contents is low enough and the cost is high enough that doing so regularly would be irrational.
Ultimatt•20m ago
A bigger problem in this respect with Wikipedia is it often cites secondary sources hidden behind an academic fire/paywall. It very often cites review articles and some of these aren't necessary entirely accurate.
Theodores•59m ago
It wasn't just Wikipedia, which was a relatively recent addition to the web, everything online was a 'load of rubbish'.

In turn-of-the-century boomer world, reality was what you saw on TV. If you saw something with your own eyes that contradicted the world view presented by the media, then one's eyes were to be disbelieved. The only reputable sources of news were the mainstream media outlets. The only credible history books would be those with reviews from the mainstream media, with anything else just being the 'ramblings of a nutter'.

In short, we built a beautiful post-truth world and now we are set on outsourcing our critical thinking to LLMs.

thewebguyd•43m ago
> I can see that "Don't trust LLMs" will slowly fade away and people will blindly trust them.

That's already happening. I don't even think we had a very long "Don't trust LLMs" phase, if we did it was very short.

The "normies" already trust whatever they spit out. At leadership meetings at my work, if I say anything that goes against the marketing hype for LLMs, such as talking about "Don't trust LLMs", it's met with eye rolls and I'm not forward thinking enough, blah blah.

Management-types have 100% bought into the hype and are increasingly more difficult to convince otherwise.

Ultimatt•24m ago
Well also years of Wikipedia proving to be more accurate than anything in print and rarely and not for very long misrepresenting source materials. For LLMs to get that same respect they would have to pull off all of the same reassuring qualities.
freejazz•4h ago
> Is anyone really cocksure on the basis of LLM received knowledge?

Yeah, the stupid.

code_for_monkey•4h ago
unfortunately im like you and we are in the minority. The manager class loves the llm and doesnt seem to consider its flaws like that.
lukan•4h ago
Nah, I feel smart to use it in a smart way to get stuff done faster than before.
everdrive•4h ago
This captures my experience quite well. I can "get a lot more done," but it's not really me doing the things, and I feel like a bit of a fraud. And as the workday and the workweek roll on, I find myself needing to force myself to look things up and experiment rather than just asking the LLM. It's quite clear that for most people LLMs will make the more dependent. People with better discipline I think will really benefit in big ways, and you'll see this become a new luxury belief; the disciplined geniuses around us will genuinely be perplexed why people are saying that LLMs have made them less capable, much in the same way they wonder why people can't just limit their drug use recreationally.
Brendinooo•3h ago
>it's not really me doing the things, and I feel like a bit of a fraud

I've been thinking about this a bit. We don't really think this way in other areas, is it appropriate to think this way here?

My car has an automatic transmission, am I a fraud because the machine is shifting gears for me?

My tractor plows a field, am I a fraud because I'm not using draft horses or digging manually?

Spell check caught a word, am I a fraud because I didn't look it up in a dictionary?

everdrive•3h ago
I've been thinking about that comparison as well. A common fantasy is that civilization will collapse and the guy who knows how to hunt and start a fire will really excel. In practice, this never happens and he's sort of left behind unless he also has other skills relevant to the modern world.

And, for instance, I have barely any knowledge of how my computer works, but it's a tool I use to do my job. (and to have fun at home.)

Why are these different than using LLMs? I think at least for me the distinction is whether or not something enables me to perform a task, or whether it's just doing the task for me. If I had to write my own OS and word processor just to write a letter, it'd never happen. The fact that the computer does this for me facilitates my task. I could write the letter by hand, but doing it in a word processor is way better. Especially if I want to print multiple copies of the letter.

But for LLMs, my task might be something like "setting up apache is easy, but I've never done it so just tell me how do it so I don't fumble through learning and make it take way longer." The task was setting up Apache. The task was assigned to me, but I didn't really do it. There wasn't necessarily some higher level task that I merely needed Apache for. Apache was the whole task! And I didn't do it!

Now, this will not be the case for all LLM-enabled tasks, but I think this distinction speaks to my experience. In the previous word processor example, the LLM would just write my document for me. It doesn't allow me to write my document more efficiently. It's efficient, only in the sense that I no longer need to actually do it myself, except for maybe to act as an editor. (and most people don't even do much of that work) My skill in writing either atrophies or never fully develops since I don't actually need to spend any time doing it or thinking about it.

In a perfect world, I use self-discipline to have the LLM show me how to set up Apache, then take notes, and then research, and then set it up manually in subsequent runs; I'd have benefited from learning the task much more quickly than if I'd done it alone, but also used my self-discipline to make sure I actually really learned something and developed expertise as well. My argument is that most people will not succeed in doing this, and will just let the LLM think for them.

Brendinooo•3h ago
I remember seeing a tweet awhile back that talked about how modernity separated work from physicality, and now you have to do exercise on purpose. I think the Internet plus car-driven societies had done something similar to being social, and LLMs are doing something to both thinking, as well as the kind of virtue that enables one to master a craft.

So, while it's an imperfect answer that I haven't really nailed down yet, maybe the answer is just to realize this and make sure we're doing hard things on purpose sometimes. This stuff has enabled free time, we just can't use it to doomscroll.

everdrive•3h ago
>Internet plus car-driven societies had done something similar to being social,

That's an interesting take on the loneliness crisis that I had not considered. I think you're really onto something. Thanks for sharing. I don't want to dive into this topic too much since it's political and really off-topic for the thread, but thank you for suggesting this.

njarboe•1h ago
Radio and especially TV also had large social effects. People used to play cards, instruments, and other social things before TV. Then household TV watching maxxed at 9 hours/day in 2010 (5hr/d in 1950). (Would like to know the per person watching and these are from Nielsen who would want higher numbers) [1].

Cars help people be social in my world. I would say that riding on a train in your own bubble with strangers is not a social activity, but others would disagree.

[1]https://www.bunkhistory.org/resources/when-did-tv-watching-p...

gtowey•56m ago
> Why are these different than using LLMs?

I would say that with a computer you're using a tool to take care of mundane details and speed up the mechanics of tasks in your life. Such as writing a document, or playing a game. I can't think of a way I would be seriously disadvantaged by not having the ability to hand-write an essay or have games I can readily play without a computer. Computers are more like tools in the way a hammer is a tool. I don't mind being totally dependent on a computer for those tasks in the same way I don't mind that I need a hammer anytime I want to drive a nail.

But for many people, LLMs replace critical thinking. They offer the allure of outsourcing planning, research, and generating ideas. These skills seem more fundamental to me, and I would say there's definitely a loss somehow of one's humanity if you let those things atrophy to the point you become utterly dependent on LLMs.

ctoth•56m ago
But what is Apache for?

You don't just set up Apache to have run Apache? You set it up to serve web content! It is middleware, it is not in of itself useful?

Isn't setting up Apache robbing yourself of the opportunity to learn about writing your own HTTP server? In C? And what a bad idea that is?

The LLM helping you configure a web server is no different than the web server helping you serve HTTP instead of implementing a web server from scratch. You've just seemingly? arbitrarily decided your preferred abstraction layer is where "real work" happens.

Okay, maybe LLMs might disappear tomorrow and so for some reason the particular skill of configuring Apache will become useful again, maybe! But I'm already using brainpower to memorize phone numbers in case my smartphone contacts disappear, so maybe I won't have room for those Apache configs ;-)

saltcured•20m ago
I don't have any great answer. But when I think about this for myself, I realize there is are different kinds of abstraction that qualitatively change the nature of the work.

I don't want my software developer's experience to turn into a real estate developer's experience. I don't want to go from being a technical knowledge worker to a financier or contract negotiator. I've realized I was never in it for the outcome. I was in it for the exploration and puzzles.

Similarly, I don't want to become a "Hollywood producer" cliche. This caricature was a common joke earlier in my tech career in Southern California. We detested the idea of becoming a "tech" person acting like a Steve Martin parody of a Hollywood wheeler-dealer. Someone sitting in a cafe, pitching ideas that was nothing more than a reference to an existing work with an added gimmick or casting change.

To me, that caricature combines two negative aspects. One is the heavily derivative and cynical nature. The other is the stratospheric abstraction level, where folks at this level see themselves as visionaries rather than just patrons of someone else doing all the creative work.

I don't want to be a patron of an LLM or other black box.

thewebguyd•37m ago
I mostly agree with this. LLMs are just another tool, and we've learned how to use and adapted to using many other tools throughout our history just fine.

With the caveat of for our field in particular, it's one of the few that require continuous learning and adaptation, so tech workers in a way are better predisposed to this line of thinking and tool adoption without some of the potential harmful side effects.

To pick on spell check, it has been showing that we can develop a dependency on it and thereby losing our own ability to spell and reason about language. But, is that a bad thing? I don't know.

What I do know is humans have been outsourcing our thinking for a long time. LLMs are another evolution in that process, just another way to push off cognitive load onto a tool like we've done with stone tablets, books, paper notes, digital notes, google, etc.

agumonkey•3h ago
Most of the time it feels like a crutch to me. There has been a few moments where it unlocked deep motivation (by having a feel for the size of a solution based on chatgpt output) and one time a research project where any crazy idea I threw, it would imagine what it would entail in terms of semantics and then I was inspired even more.

The jury is Still out on what value these things will bring

rsynnott•3h ago
> Is anyone really cocksure on the basis of LLM received knowledge?

Some people certainly seem to be. You see this a lot on webforums; someone spews a lot of confident superficially plausible-looking nonsense, then when someone points out that it is nonsense, they say they got it from a magic robot.

I think this is particularly common for non-tech people, who are more likely to believe that the magic robots are actually intelligent.

jayd16•1h ago
Well I think your experience is, if not in the minority, at least not the overwhelming majority.

Lots of folks think it's amazing and greatly empowers them.

nathan_compton•1h ago
Yeah, everything I get out of the AI stinks of wrongness, even when its not materially wrong. There is a flimsiness to everything.
bootsmann•1h ago
> Is anyone really cocksure on the basis of LLM received knowledge?

I work for a company with an open source product and the number of support requests we get from people who ask the chatbot to do their config and then end up with something nonfunctioning is quite significant. Goes up to users complaining our api is down because the chatbot hallucinated the endpoint.

cachius•4h ago
From the title I thought this was a repost of 'AI is Dunning-Kruger as a service ' https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45851483

It is not.

gopheryourshelf•4h ago
>“the problem with the world is that the stupid are cocksure, while the intelligent are full of doubt.”

Is it me or does everyone find that dumb people seem to use this statement more than ever?

stevenwoo•4h ago
It appears to be a paraphrasing of William Butler Yeats https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Second_Coming_(poem)
0xdeadbeefbabe•4h ago
Ugh. You can be cocksure of your doubts. It's still confidence, duh.
aeve890•3h ago
Everyone thinks they're the intelligent ones, of course. Which reinforces the repetition ad nauseam of Dunning Kruger. Which is on itself dumb AF because the effect described by Dunning and Kruger has been repeatedly exaggerated and misinterpreted. Which in turn is even dumber because Dunning-Kruger effect is debatable and reproducibility is weak at best.
the_af•3h ago
Yeah, nobody who ever mentions the DK effect (myself included) ever stops to consider they might be in the "dumb" cohort ;)

We are all geniuses!

vehemenz•4h ago
I hate to comment on just a headline—thought I did read the article—but it's wrong enough to warrant correcting.

This is not what the Dunning-Kruger effect is. It's lacking metacognitive ability to understand one's own skill level. Overconfidence resulting from ignorance isn't the same thing. Joe Rogan propagated the version of this phenomenon that infiltrated public consciousness, and we've been stuck with it ever since.

Ironically, you can plug this story into your favorite LLM, and it will tell you the same thing. And, also ironically, the LLM will generally know more than you in most contexts, so anyone with a degree epistemic humility is better served taking it at least as seriously as their own thoughts and intuitions, if not at face value.

lukev•4h ago
I very much agree. I've been telling folks in trainings that I do that the term "artificial intelligence" is a cognitohazard, in that it pre-consciously steers you to conceptualize a LLM as an entity.

LLMs are cool and useful technology, but if you approach them with the attitude you're talking with an other, you are leaving yourself vulnerable to all sorts of cognitive distortions.

roywiggins•4h ago
It certainly isn't helped by the RLHF and chat interface encouraging this. LLM providers have every incentive to make their users engage it like an other. It was much harder to accidentally do when it was just a completion UI and not designed to roleplay as a person.
cgriswald•3h ago
I don't think that is actually a problem. For decades people have believed that computers can't be wrong. Why, now, suddenly, would it be worse if they believed the computer wasn't a computer?

The larger problem is cognitive offloading. The people for whom this is a problem were already not doing the cognitive work of verifying facts and forming their own opinions. Maybe they watched the news, read a Wikipedia article, or listened to a TEDtalk, but the results are the same: an opinion they felt confident in without a verified basis.

To the extent this is on 'steroids', it is because they see it as an expert (in everything) computer and because it is so much faster than watching a TED talk or reading a long form article.

roywiggins•2h ago
It can also dispense agreeable confirmation on tap, with very little friction and hardly any chance of accidentally encountering something unexpected or challenging. Even TED talks occasionally have a point of view that isn't perfectly crafted for each hearer.
mmaunder•4h ago
Use an agent to create something with a non-negotiable outcome. Eg software that does something useful, or fails to, in a language you don’t program in. This is a helpful way to calibrate your own understanding of what LLMs are capable of.
AndrewKemendo•4h ago
Humans broadly have a tenuous grasp of “reality” and “truth.” Propagandists, spies and marketers know what philosophers of mind prove all too well: most humans do not perceive or interact with reality as it is, rather their perception of it as it contributes or contradicts their desired future.

Provide a person confidence in their opinion and they will not challenge it, as that would risk the reward of lend you live in a coherent universe.

The majority person has never heard the term “epistemology” despite the concept being central to how people derive coherence. Yet all these trite pieces written about AI and its intersectionality with knowledge claim some important technical distinction.

I’m hopeful that a crisis of epistemology is coming, though that’s probably too hopeful. I’m just enjoying the circus at this point

balderdash•4h ago
I ascribe the effect of LLMs as similar to reading the newspaper, when I learn about something I have no knowledge base in I come away feeling like I learned a lot. When I interact with a newspaper or LLM in an area where I have real domain expertise I realize they don’t know what they are talking about - which is concerning about the information I get from them about topics I don’t have that high level of domain expertise.
moffkalast•3h ago
And why stop at newspapers, it's been a while since one could say books have any integrity, pretty much anyone can get anything into print these days. From political shenanigans to self help books designed to confirm people's biases to sell more units. Video's by far the hardest to fake but that's changing as well.

Regardless of what media you get your info from you have to be selective of what sources you trust. It's more true today than ever before, because the bar for creating content has never been lower.

Night_Thastus•1h ago
The problem is that LLM output is so incredibly confident in tone. It really sounds like you're talking to an expert who has years of experience and has done the research for you - and tech companies push this angle quite hard.

That's bad when their output can be complete garbage at times.

AlienRobot•1h ago
It makes me really sad how Google pushes this technology that is simply flat out wrong sometimes. I forgot what exactly I searched for, but I searched for a color model that Krita supports hoping to get the online documentation as the first result and the under several Youtube thumbnails the AI overview was telling me that Krita doesn't support that color model and you need a plugin for that. Under the AI overview was the search result I was looking for about that color model in Krita.

And worse of all is that it's not even consistent, because I tried the same searches again and I couldn't get the same answer, so it just randomly decides to assert complete nonsense sometimes while other times it gives the right answer or says something completely unrelated.

It's really been a major negative in my search experience. Every time I search for something I can't be sure that it's actually quoting anything verbatim, so I need to check the sources anyway. Except it's much harder to find the link to the source with these AI's than it is to just browse the verbatim snippets in a simple list of search results. So it's just occupying space with something that is simply less convenient.

thewebguyd•25m ago
The AI is also indiscriminate with what "sources" it chooses. Even deep research mode in gemini.

You can go through and look at the websites it checked, and it's 80% blogspam with no other sources cited on said blog.

When I'm manually doing a Google search, I'm not just randomly picking the first few links I'm deliberately filtering for credible domains or articles, not just picking whatever random marketing blog SEO'd their way to the top.

Sorry Gemini, an Advertorial from Times of India is not a reliable source for what I'm looking for. Nor is this xyz affiliate marketing blog stuffed to the brim with ads and product placement.

Some of that is due to that's probably 90% of the internet, but weren't these things trained on huge amounts of books, and published peer-reviewed works? Where are those in the sources?

defgeneric•1h ago
Also known as the "Gell-Mann amnesia effect" [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gell-Mann_amnesia_effect

avree•4h ago
The title makes this incomprehensible. The author seemingly defines Dunning-Kruger as the... opposite of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
gowld•54m ago
The "Dunning-Kruger Effect" Effect: A reference to Dunning-Kruger Effect is almost certainly incorrect.
kraftman•4h ago
I feel like when I talk to someone and they tell me a fact, that fact goes into a kind of holding space, where I apply a filter of 'who is this person that is telling me this thing to know what the thing they are telling me is'. There's how well I know them, there's the other beleifs I know they have, there's their professional experience and their personal experience. That fact then gets marked as 'probably a true fact' or 'mark beleives in aliens'.

When I use chatGPT I do the same before I've asked for the fact: how common is this problem? how well known is it? How likely is that chatgpt both knows it and can surface it? Afterwards I don't feel like I know something, I feel like I've got a faster broad idea of what facts might exist and where to look for them, a good set of things to investigate, etc.

giraffe_lady•4h ago
The important part of this is the "I feel like" bit. There's a fair but growing bit of research that the "fact" is more durable in your memory than the context, and over time, across a lot of information, you will lose some of the mappings and integrate things you "know" to be false into model of the world.

This more closely fits our models of cognition anyway. There is nothing really very like a filter in the human mind, though there are things that feel like them.

kraftman•3h ago
Maybe but then thats the same wether I talk to chatGPT or a human isnt it? except with chatgpt i instantly verify what im looking for, whereas with a human i cant do that.
giraffe_lady•2h ago
I wouldn't assume that it's the same, no. For all we knock them unconscious biases seem to get a lot of work done, we do all know real things that we learned from other unreliable humans, somehow. Not a perfect process at all but one we are experienced at and have lifetimes of intuition for.

The fact that LLMs seem like people but aren't, specifically have a lot of the signals of a reliable source in some ways, I'm not sure how these processes will map. I'm skeptical of anyone who is confident about it in either way, in fact.

medstrom•3h ago
Reminds me of "default to null":

> The mental motion of “I didn’t really parse that paragraph, but sure, whatever, I’ll take the author’s word for it” is, in my introspective experience, absolutely identical to “I didn’t really parse that paragraph because it was bot-generated and didn’t make any sense so I couldn’t possibly have parsed it”, except that in the first case, I assume that the error lies with me rather than the text. This is not a safe assumption in a post-GPT2 world. Instead of “default to humility” (assume that when you don’t understand a passage, the passage is true and you’re just missing something) the ideal mental action in a world full of bots is “default to null” (if you don’t understand a passage, assume you’re in the same epistemic state as if you’d never read it at all.)

https://www.greaterwrong.com/posts/4AHXDwcGab5PhKhHT/humans-...

jancsika•2h ago
> Afterwards I don't feel like I know something, I feel like I've got a faster broad idea of what facts might exist and where to look for them, a good set of things to investigate, etc.

Can you cite a specific example where this happened for you? I'm interested in how you think you went from "broad idea" to building actual knowledge.

kraftman•2h ago
Sure. I wanted to tile my bathroom, from chatgpt i learned about laser levels, ledger boards, and levelling spacers (id only seen those cross corner ones before).
catlifeonmars•21m ago
FWIW that seems like low stakes compared to what I see other people using LLMs for (e.g medical advice).
chaostheory•4h ago
There are so many guardrails now that are being improved daily. This blog post is a year out of date. Not to mention that people know how to prompt better these days.

To make his point, you need specific examples from specific LLMs.

jakubmazanec•3h ago
It's possible that the Dunning-Kruger effect is not real, only a measurement or statistical artefact [1]. So it probably needs more and better studies.

[1] https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/critical-thinking/dunning-...

travisgriggs•3h ago
8 months or so ago, my quip regarding LLMs was “stochastic parrot.”

The term I’ve been using of late is “authority simulator.” My formative experiences with “authority figures” was a person who can speak with breadth and depth about a subject and who seems to have internalized it because they can answer quickly and thoroughly. Because LLMs do this so well, it’s really easy to feel like you’re talking to an authority in a subject. And even though my brain intellectually knows this isn’t true, emotionally, the simulation of authority is comforting.

GMoromisato•3h ago
Speaking of uncertainty, I wish more people would accept their uncertainty with regards to the future of LLMs rather than dash off yet another cocksure article about how LLMs are {X}, and therefore {completely useless}|{world-changing}.

Quantity has a quality of its own. The first chess engine to beat Gary Kasparov wasn't fundamentally different than earlier ones--it just had a lot more compute power.

The original Google algorithm was trivial: rank web pages by incoming links--its superhuman power at giving us answers ("I'm feeling lucky") was/is entirely due to a massive trove of data.

And remember all the articles about how unreliable Wikipedia was? How can you trust something when anyone can edit a page? But again, the power of quantity--thousands or millions of eyeballs identifying errors--swamped any simple attacks.

Yes, LLMs are literally just matmul. How can anything useful, much less intelligent, emerge from multiplying numbers really fast? But then again, how can anything intelligent emerge from a wet mass of brain cells? After all, we're just meat. How can meat think?

svieira•2h ago
> How can meat think?

Some of us used to think that meat spontaneously generated flies. Maybe someday we'll (re-)learn that meat doesn't spontaneously generate thought either?

ACCount37•25m ago
I don't give much merit to ideas that demand the existence of Magic Fairy Dust.

And especially not now. Not when LLMs can already do pretty much anything that a human can - and some of those things they can even do well.

hathawsh•51m ago
Most of HN has probably seen this gem about "thinking meat", but in case you haven't: https://www.mit.edu/people/dpolicar/writing/prose/text/think...
phamson02•3h ago
I partly share the author's point that ChatGPT users (myself included) can "walk away not just misinformed, but misinformed with conviction". Sometimes I want to criticise aloud, write a post blaming this technology for those colourful, sophisticated, yet empty bullshits I hear from a colleague or read in an online post.

But I always resist the urge. Because I think: Isn't it always going to have some kinds of people like that? With or without this LLM thing.

If there is anything to hate about this technology, for the more and more bullshits we see/hear in daily life, it is: (1) Its reach: More people of all ages, of different backgrounds, expertise, and intents are using it. Some are heavily misusing it. (2) Its (ever increasing) capability: Yes, it has already become pretty easy for ChatGPT or any other LLMs to produce a sophisticated but wrong answer on a difficult topic. And I think the trend is that with later, more advanced versions, it would become harder and take more effort to spot a hidden failure lurking in a more information-dense LLM's answer.

bryanlarsen•2h ago
My opinion: if LLM's speed you up, you're doing it wrong. You have to carefully review and audit every line that comes out of an LLM. You have to spend a lot of time forcing LLM's to prove that the code it wrote is correct. You should be nit-picking everything.

Despite, LLM's are useful. I could write the code faster without an LLM, but then I'd have code that wasn't carefully reviewed line-by-line because my coworkers trust me (the fools). It'd have far fewer tests because nobody forced me to prove everything. It'd have worse naming because every once in a while the LLM does that better than me. It'll be missing a few edge cases the LLM thought of that I didn't. It'd have forest/trees problems because if I was writing the code I'd be focused on the code instead of the big picture.

nzach•1h ago
> You have to carefully review and audit every line that comes out of an LLM. You have to spend a lot of time forcing LLM's to prove that the code it wrote is correct. You should be nit-picking everything.

I'm not sure this statement is true most of the time. This kind of reasoning reminds me of the discussion around 'code correctness'. In my opinion there are very few instances where correctness is really important. Most of the time you just need something that works well enough.

Imagine you have a continuous numeric scale that goes from 'never works' to '100% formal proofs' to indicate the correctness of every piece of software. Pushing your code to the '100% formal proofs' side takes a lot of resources, that could be deployed on other places.

bryanlarsen•37m ago
At least for us, every bug that makes it into a release that gets installed on a client computer costs us 100x - 1000x as much as a bug that gets caught earlier.
Kiro•11m ago
Most code is not critical like that. A lot of the stuff I write has very little impact if things go wrong and it's easy to tell if it's incorrect.
Foobar8568•51m ago
I start feeling that LLM are hallucinating less than people, no matter the fields, I am at the stage where I trust more code written by an LLM than by a person.

Typically, for the last 2 years, I don't feel that anyone can or bother to read anymore.

pants2•2h ago
I've seen this! Following some Math and Physics subreddits it's a regular occurrence for a new submitter to come in and post some 40 pages of incomprehensible bullshit and claim that they developed a unifying theory of physics with ChatGPT and that ChatGPT has told them it's a breakthrough in the field. Of course that used to happen regularly before LLMs but not nearly as often.
simianwords•1h ago
>How often do you think a ChatGPT user walks away not just misinformed, but misinformed with conviction? I would bet this happens all the time. And I can’t help but wonder what the effects are in the big picture.

this is so wrong! i simply can't get ChatGPT to admit something clearly wrong. it can play both sides and gives nuance which is exactly what i expect. but it is so un-sycopanthic that it won't leave you feeling like you are right. any examples of it doing so are welcome! show me examples where it takes a clearly wrong or false idea and makes it look as if it is a good idea (unless you specifically ask it to do it).

uoaei•1h ago
Freely available online information is very often educationally incredibly shallow and commonly oversimplified to the point of being wrong. So of course an agent trained on it would be, too.
zkmon•1h ago
>> How often do you think a ChatGPT user walks away not just misinformed, but misinformed with conviction? I would bet this happens all the time.

Why is the "Dunning-Kruger" is not mentioned anywhere in the article body while is gloriously visible in the title? By the way, AI is not wrong "all the time".

rwolf•1h ago
"all the time" in this context means frequently, not constantly, and is usually understood as a global rate.

for example: people fall in love all the time.

zkmon•1h ago
I don't think you get "frequently" misinformed by ChatGPT. What kind of prompts you are using, that make ChatGPT to give false info very often?
yannyu•22m ago
It's remarkably easy to get ChatGPT to hallucinate. A go-to for me is to ask it about factual things as compared to other factual things. The description of the Bluey episode is wrong in nearly every possible way. Additionally, the response continues on analyzing in multiple ways, and again continues to get the fundamental facts and therefore the analysis wrong.

Prompt: Compare the Space episode of Bluey to Interstellar

Response: That’s a really fun and surprisingly fitting comparison! Let’s break down how Bluey’s “Space” episode parallels Christopher Nolan’s Interstellar — both emotionally and thematically — even though one is a 7-minute preschool cartoon and the other a 3-hour sci-fi epic.

1. Core Theme: Love Across Distance

Interstellar: The film centers on a father (Cooper) who leaves his daughter (Murph) to save humanity, exploring how love transcends time and space — literally. The emotional heart of Interstellar is the bond between parent and child that endures despite impossible separation.

Bluey: “Space” In this episode, Bluey, Bingo, and their dad (Bandit) play an imaginative game where they’re astronauts who have to separate to save their mission. The moment Bluey and Bandit must say goodbye echoes that same emotional tension — the pain of letting go but also the love that motivates sacrifice.

Parallel: Both stories use the setting of outer space as a metaphor for emotional distance — how people we love can feel far away, and how connection can bridge that gap.

resters•1h ago
they do not have to be. People who seek an idea bubble end up finding one.
vanillax•1h ago
I'll take big - enterprise AI written code, over offshore any day of the week. I for one welcome AI for this exact use case.
djoldman•1h ago
Just a reminder that the "Dunning-Kruger effect" is probably not real [0].

It makes sense to refer to it as a concept but it's probably not an appropriate assumption to make about people.

[0] https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/critical-thinking/dunning-...

jayd16•1h ago
This seems to move the idea that you might not understand how skilled you are to some kind of law that ties humility to knowledge more strictly.

Maybe this is my misunderstanding but I don't think the common invocation really took it as a law that the unknowledgeable always think their skills are higher.

nis0s•50m ago
There’s a gap that LLMs are trying to fill in such cases, which is that there’s too much information that we can possibly hope to make sense of in a lifetime. Just as it’s possible to compute something incorrectly with a calculator, you can definitely be led astray by an LLM, which is why I am surprised that people think these models are good enough to replace humans at work. The only thing which makes sense is to both raise the bar for publishing, and to only take published works seriously. If something isn’t published, then authors should provide code to demonstrate the effect they’re describing.
thewebguyd•31m ago
> which is why I am surprised that people think these models are good enough to replace humans at work.

There are a lot of office jobs that I'd fit into the category of "bullshit jobs." They may serve some purpose in the huge bureaucracy of enterprises but the day to day ultimately boils doing to managing someone's calendar and sending emails.

Quite a few people at my work have now started using Copilot for their emails. It's obviously AI (at least to me), and yet, the content and formatting are an improvement over what they were sending before.

So much of the marketing hype on LLMs is about how it'll replace all the engineering work (the MBA's wet dream, to replace all the expensive labor). In reality, I think its more capable at replacing non-tech labor and middle management.

An LLM can send out an email to the team and analyze a project check-in faster, and better, than some overpaid middle manager can. I have no doubts an LLM could probably serve the role of a project management office, or a business analyst.

Sure, there should still be a human in the loop for now, but you need far, far less humans in those roles than previously.

nis0s•11m ago
I go back and forth on the idea that some jobs are bullshit, maybe I haven’t been exposed to enough industries or work places. Every place I worked definitely didn’t have bullshit jobs to hand out as adult daycare, but I can see how some places can become bloated because an over ambitious middle manager wants to say they manage X number of people on their resume. So there are bullshit jobs in that there are people who aren’t being utilized correctly, so in that case I’d say they’re no bullshit jobs, just bullshit leadership or managers.
gowld•50m ago
I recently asked a leading GenAI chatbot to help me understand a certain physics concept. As I pressed it on the aspect I was confused about, the bot repeatedly explained, and in our discussion, consistently held firm that I was misunderstanding something, and made guesses about what I was misunderstanding. Eventually I realized and stated my mistake, and the chatbot confirmed and explained the difference between my wrong version and the truth. I looked at some sources and confirmed that the bot was right, and I had misremembered something.

I was quite impressed that it didn't "give in" and validate my wrong idea.

hathawsh•27m ago
I've seen similar results in physics. I suspect LLMs are capable of redirecting the user accurately when there have been long discussions on the web about that topic. When an LLM can pattern-match on whole discussions, it becomes a next-level search engine.

Next, I hope we can somehow get LLMs to distinguish between reliable and less-reliable results.

littlestymaar•50m ago
Found somewhere on the internet a few days ago: LLMs are Dunning-Kruger as a service.

Edit: it was https://christianheilmann.com/2025/10/30/ai-is-dunning-kruge...

alecco•49m ago
This is a much better way to think about LLM/chatbots:

Coding in the Red-Queen Era - Don't Let Agents Eat Your Brain https://corecursive.com/red-queen-coding/

AaronAPU•38m ago
LLMs basically act as defense attorneys for all your dumbest ideas. It is very easy to assume their confidence in you is justified, especially if you already lean narcissistic.

You now see threads on X of famous people using Grok to explain how smart their ideas are. But there’s a problem: You can literally get it to do that with every single dumb idea.

pklausler•38m ago
LLMs, kind of like Bill Bryson's books, are great at presenting "information" that seems completely plausible, authoritative, and convincing to the reader. But when you actually do know the truth about a subject, you realize how completely full of crap they too often are. And somehow after being given a patently counterfactual response to one query, we just blindly continue to take their responses to other queries as having value.
niccl•21m ago
> But when you actually do know the truth about a subject, you realize how completely full of crap they too often are

The Gell-Mann Amnesia Effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gell-Mann_amnesia_effect

serial_dev•20m ago
Similar to (same as?) Gell-Mann amnesia effect.
obelos•20m ago
I've most frequently heard this referred to as “Gell-Mann Amnesia,” and yes, LLMs are fertile ground to find it.
rockostrich•14m ago
At the moment, I find them to be the perfect tool to get started with learning about something. I don't expect it to tell me everything I need to know or to even be right, but if I ask ChatGPT or another LLM a question about a subject I'm not familiar with then it will at least use a bunch of terminology that I didn't have in my vocabulary before starting.

For example, I just bought a 1990 Miata and I want to install a couple of rocker switches in the dash to individually control the pop-up headlights. I have enough circuits knowledge to safely change outlets and light switches, but I didn't know about relays. I asked ChatGPT how to add these switches and it immediately mentioned buying DPDT switches and tying in the OEM relay into a SPDT relay. It may have gotten the actual circuit diagram completely wrong, but now I know exactly what to read up on.

j-bos•8m ago
> like Bill Bryson's books, are great at presenting "information" that seems completely plausible, authoritative, and convincing to the reader. But when you actually do know the truth about a subject, you realize how completely full of crap

Wow, I have a couple Bill Bryson books on my reading list, can you share some examples of that?

jb1991•8m ago
I think it is truly hilarious that you brought Bill Bryson into this discussion.
bob1029•31m ago
I find the biggest crime with LLMs to be the size of the problems we feed them.

Every time I start getting lazy and asking ChatGPT things like "write me a singleton that tracks progression for XYZ in a unity project", I wind up with a big hole where some deeper understanding of my problem should be. A better approach is to prompt it like "Show me a few ways to persist progression-like data in a unity project. Compare and contrast them".

Having an LLM development policy where you ~blindly accept a solution simply because it works is like an HOV lane to hell. It is very tempting to do this when you are tired or in a rush. I do it all the time.

cluoma•20m ago
I used to get this same feeling during lectures in uni. Often the information was presented well and, along with some clear examples, everything seemed to make perfect sense.

It wasn't until working through practice problems later, on my own, did it become clear how much detail I was missing.

Swizec•12m ago
> It wasn't until working through practice problems later, on my own, did it become clear how much detail I was missing.

This is a common problem in learning. Recognition is easier than recall and smoothness is confused for understanding.

You actually need to struggle with the concepts a bit to learn effectively. Without the struggle it feels more effective, but is not.

lamontcg•18m ago
I'm pretty well "on the spectrum" and people glazing me in real life produce suspicion and discomfort rather than any good feelings.

I don't have a problem just ignoring all the LLM glazing, although I'd really like the ability to turn it off.

The fact that they've all been trained to do it, because so many of the "normies" fall for it, is kind of an indictment in my eyes. Bit of a mirror held up to society.

You should probably be worried about how fake flattery works so well in society, and how this enables sociopaths and narcissists to flourish and control everything.

This LLM problem is just a symptom.

jumploops•17m ago
I recall trying to use GPT-4 to plan a trip through the PNW in ~Spring of 2023.

It presented a reasonable agenda, however 80% of the rockhounding spots were completely made up!

Over time, and as LLMs have gotten less sycophantic, I’ve found myself trusting them a bit more (a dangerous and slippery slope).

With that said, GPT-4o in particular, seemed to rank user satisfaction above truth.

I’ve found that GPT-5 Pro is currently the best at pushing back against silly ideas, and does a decent job of informing me that my questions could be better (: