So far it's pretty good. We're at least one major version behind, but hey everything still works.

I cannot imagine other products support as many data sources (though I'm starting to think they all suck, I just dump what I can in InfluxDB).

Prometheus and Grafana have been progressing in their own ways and each of them is trying to have a fullstack solution and then the OTEL thingy came and ruined the party for everyone

The author is 100% correct: Monitoring should be the most boring tool in the stack. Its one and only job is to be more reliable than the thing it's monitoring.

The moment your monitoring stack requires a complex dependency like Kafka, or changes its entire agent flow every 18 months, it has failed its primary purpose. It has become the problem.

This sounds less like a technical evolution and more like the classic VC-funded push to get everyone onto a high-margin cloud product, even at the cost of the open-source soul.

This isn't a Grafana problem, this is an industry wide problem. Resume driven product design, resume driven engineering, resume driven marketing. DO your 2-3 years, pump out something big to inflate your resume. Apply elsewhere to get the pay bump that almost no company is handing out. After the departures there is no one left who knows the system and the next people in want to replace the things they don't understand to pad their resume for the next job.

Wash, rinse, repete.

Loyalty, simply goes unrewarded in a lot of places in our industry (and at a many corporations). And the people who do stay... in many cases they turn into furniture that ends up holding potential good evolution back. They loose out to the technological magpies the bring shiny things to management because it will "move the needle".

Sadly this is just one facet of the problems we are facing, from how we interview to how we run (or rent) our infrastructure things have gotten rather silly...

elastic stack is so heavy it's out of question for smaller clusters, loki integration with grafana is nice to have but separate capable dashboard would be also fine

I think this would not need to be an issue as frequently if prometheus had a more efficient publish/scraping mechanism. iirc there was once a protobuf metric format that was dropped, and now there is just the text format. While it wouldn't handle billions of unique labels like mimir, a compact binary metric format could certainly allow for millions at reasonable resolution instead of wasting all that scale potential on repeated name strings. I should be able to push or expose a bulk blob all at once with ordered labels or at least raw int keys.

That's besides the point that most customers will never need that level of scale. If you're not running Mimir on a dedicated Kubernetes cluster (or at least a dedicated-to-Grafana / observability cluster) then it's probably over-engineered for your use-case. Just use Prometheus.

That is to say I agree with the author.

I used to be a fan of InfluxDB (back in the days of v1.x) then I went off it for exactly this reason.

I’d like to adjust this understanding. Kafka is the big new thing, but it’s optional. The previous way using gRPC still works.

I work on Mimir and other things at Grafana Labs.

What’s a bigger lock in for me is metrics and promql - you just can’t ever rename a poorly named metric or you face a world of pain. Or when Prometheus releases Native Histograms to replace the old ones, and suddenly everything from rules, alerts, ad-hoc queries and dashboards needs updating.

And PromQL is so opaque, it just never give you an error unless there is a syntax issue. We need tools like https://github.com/cloudflare/pint just to know if my alert description isn’t trying to render a label that’s just not gonna be there, etc

I just want the thing to alert me when something's down, and ideally if the check doesn't change and the datasource and metric don't change, the dashboard definition and the alert definition should be the same for the last and the next 10 years.

The UI used to have the most 4-5 important links in the sidebar, now it's 10 menus with submenus of submenus, and I never know where to find the basics: Dashboards and Alerts. When something goes off I don't have time to re-learn the UI I look at maybe once a month.

I understand updating some front facing service due to a vulnerability... But for a thing that it's internally accessible?

I know there is always the temptation to make it really shiny and nice. But the more moving parts your system has the liklier it becomes that something will fail eventually. And as it happens these failures happen usually at the time when it is most inconvenient for all people involved.

That doesn't mean that complex software cannot work reliably, but it takes more effort for the developer side to honor that unwritten contract with their users (if they are even aware of it).

This is why sometimes doing it yourself, on your own servers can be benefitial because it gives you more control.

I've had a grafana + prometheus setup on my servers since like 2017. It worked then and works today. I log in maybe once every year or two to update to a newer LTS version. Every dashboard is still pristine, and nothing has ever broken.

I don't understand most of the words in the linked post and don't need to. The core package is the boring solution that 99% of people here need, and that works great.

I wonder why they think that is the case, as Zabbix has native support for monitoring VMs and Docker containers, including support for discovering newly spawned ones and all that jazz

> career-driven development

we don't have this and promote and reward as frequently for "I've done solid operations" as we do for "I've added this feature" (I'm on promotion committees and can state this confidently).

what we do have is high autonomy for engineers. This autonomy means it's a freedom that engineers have to identify problems they feel are important and to work on them, they do not need permission and leadership do not veto this. Some of the best features in the last few years have been a direct result of this autonomy, it's one of the things that makes working here so attractive to many of the engineers. But, with autonomy comes a little chaos, and not everything that is done is going to satisfy every end user of OSS or paid customer (of which these are a small percent of the whole).

a lot of the innovation speed is just in the DNA of the company, even the creation of Grafana can be traced to a desire to get things done; Torkel wanted Kibana to also work for Prometheus, Kibana declined to add this, Torkel didn't stand still and added things to a fork of Kibana now called Grafana and hasn't stopped adding things since.

> They also deprecated Angular within Grafana and switched to React for dashboards. This broke most existing dashboards.

we did, I think the entire journey was 7 years long, communicated many times, over at least 6 major releases. maintaining dashboards in two languages increased complexity, whilst reducing compatibility, and gave a very large security surface to be worried about. we communicated clearly, provided migration tools, put it in release notes, updated docs, repeated it at conferences and on community calls.

arguably we went too slow, and should've ripped the band-aid off, but we were sensitive to the fact that it was a breaking change and so we proceeded with extreme caution. it's done now, it was finally completed in the last version, only a very small number of users reported impact as a result of the time and care taken on this.

> I just hope OTEL settles, gets stable and boring fast

this is distinct from Grafana, but it's a good point... OTel is the product of virtually every vendor at this point, and a hell of a lot of engineers, it now has a lot of momentum and the pace is unlikely to ease up due to the sheer number of contributions and things that OTel as a community wishes to achieve.

the most likely eventuality is that enough stability emerges to allow vendors (including but not limited to Grafana Labs) to abstract away the pace of innovation occurring underneath, but this is in tension with providing the benefits of the innovation to the people that use it.

what I would say is that for most people the boring and slow path does still exist, and it's still good... just use Prometheus, a logging option of your choice, and simple Grafana dashboards and alerts. that combination hasn't varied in years, and those on it today are still immune from caring about the pace of innovation and change in OTel and across the Observability industry. OTel is being used in production at massive scale by lots of companies, but whether your project or company need move to it now reflects your priorities, many are adopting to gain independence from vendors, or just control over their telemetry, but many customers are also saying they're happy to stay on the slow and boring path and for everything to work predictably with low cost to keep pace... it works too.