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My Students Can't Read

https://www.chronicle.com/article/my-students-cant-read
53•computerliker•1h ago

Comments

computerliker•1h ago
https://archive.ph/WY1yk
arikrahman•24m ago
Says unable to connect
xp84•8m ago
Working now
sameers•5m ago
Hit refresh
TurdF3rguson•34m ago
I can't read either. I think the paywall might have to do with it.
jjulius•5m ago
This was shared about a half-hour prior to your comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48377930
Avicebron•33m ago
Haven't we trained everyone to context switch between screens at all times?

I suspect that has something to do with it.

SV_BubbleTime•29m ago
I know formerly smart people, the same people are phone addicts. They’re not kids.

It definitely has something to do with it. I’m not convinced the best way to discuss it is long form article. Nor do I know how to fix it, no majority group is going to give up their phones.

jm4•18m ago
It's an attention issue. We have these phones with constant dopamine hits. We were getting it a little bit on the web before the rise of smartphones, but it's just out of control now. We have 100 apps constantly vying for our attention and giving us endless things to scroll through.

The only thing that fixes it is to put the phone down. Do something else. Play video games. Read books. Go outside. Anything to stay away from the phone (but not TV). These phones are as bad as drugs.

I've been pushing to read a lot more books this year and it helps a lot.

Avicebron•18m ago
I don't think a long form article is the best way to fix it, if I could find a good one I think joining a book club might. That's all voluntary though so not really a blanket solution..
kevin_thibedeau•18m ago
I'm refreshing a language on Duolingo and I'm careful not to blast through the exercises without actively processing them. You can treat it as mindless puzzle solving without internalizing anything. I suspect many reading averse digital natives do something similar when they can't consume video or audio.
SV_BubbleTime•32m ago
>And yet more than half of these same seniors reported being accepted to a four-year college.

Well… yes. The loans are secured, so it is within the college’s interest to make 13th grade.

>showed that the mere presence of a participant’s smartphone — whether that be face down, powered off, untouched, or across the desk out of vision — measurably reduces available working memory and fluid intelligence on cognitive tests

Claim without data that I see, but ok… going on…

>Eighty-three percent of LLM users could not quote a single line from essays they had written minutes earlier.

Well, this makes sense. They didn’t write anything. This isn’t ground breaking, they let the students cheat.

>districts replaced sustained reading with the practice of pulling “evidence” from disconnected short passages, the same format used on the standardized tests that increasingly determine school funding

I remember this first hand.

>The students who cannot read a 20-page article today are the voters who will not be able to read a bill, or the jurors who cannot follow a closing argument, tomorrow.

I’m certain I remember my parents complaining about the same with my generation…

There are probably excellent points around these topics. But… this article doesn’t make the point as well as that kid getting his classmates failing to read a simple sentence on video.

pclowes•21m ago
I think 13th grade is a stretch. It seems more like they are charging mid six figures to teach grades 6 through 10.
mr-pink•22m ago
what was the article?
ngriffiths•19m ago
> The students who cannot read a 20-page article today are the voters who will not be able to read a bill, or the jurors who cannot follow a closing argument, tomorrow.

Obviously literacy is super important but these are examples of things where literacy plays very little role, because ~nobody can read a bill, or follow a written legal argument. I mean a very literate person can get something out of reading it, which is nice until they then completely misinterpret it, or hear what their friends say about it and get onboard purely based on vibes.

I feel like it matters more for the economy and the future of knowledge work which, uh, is a little uncertain these days.

jimbokun•9m ago
> nobody can read a bill

Especially not our politicians.

jhbadger•4m ago
Exactly. Legal language is basically a programming language for lawyers. It isn't reasonable to expect a non lawyer to understand it any more than to expect a non-coder to understand source code. Even most politicians keep staff to do the actual reading of bills.
altairprime•13m ago
I can confirm this from community colleges in both California and Oregon over the past two years; every non-science, non-math general education class (n=10+) has at least one students who cannot read or write at more than a couple sentences per minute. They’re perfectly able to keep up verbally but their education passed them through standardized tests without requiring reading and writing at a reasonable velocity.
pclowes•12m ago
We really need to make high school diplomas mean something again. However, this means something like a 35% fail rate.

Unfortunately, the populace would not accept that and so every credential gets inflated to worthlessness.

90%+ of all people in undergrad and 50% of grad school probably shouldn’t be there. They just want the credential, to get the job, to get the money. This is understandable but there is no interest to actually go deep or learn anything. Socratic style seminars are silent. Deep critique or wrestling with a topic only if pandering or grade related. Humanities watered down to irrelevance compared to STEM which has to keep some rigor or the bridges collapse and lights dont turn on. Academia is inflated by, wasted on, and ruined by them. They would be much better served by a high school diploma that wasn’t meaningless

jimbokun•10m ago
Who the hell can go 10s of thousands of dollars in debt to have Socratic discussions without gaining a credential valued by employers at the end of it?
beepbooptheory•7m ago
Why wouldn't employers value it?
delfinom•6m ago
A student populace not taught financial literacy and memed they have to go to college to succeed. High schools hiring "advisors" whose entire job is to maximize the college application rates to make the school look good.

My high school, quite a few years ago had 10 "advisors" you only met in senior years their entire existence was to milk those college numbers. The one I got assigned to ended up throwing a major fit even including the principal because I refused to let her write a recommendation letter for me. I didn't know her and she knew nothing of me but some bullshit she wanted me to write down to guide her. I told them to fuck the right off.

Boomers turned college into an industrial pipeline.

phyzix5761•10m ago
Maybe they can't read because the article is behind a pay wall.
andai•7m ago
Your readers also cannot read, due to paywall.

https://archive.ph/XvPXE

jjulius•5m ago
The irony of not reading the comments... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48377930
altairprime•6m ago
[delayed]
throw_m239339•1m ago
It's not so much that they can't read, it's just that they have a short attention spam, which is an even bigger issue. And yes, I blame Tiktok and co. Your students couldn't sit through Ben-Hur.
floxy•9m ago
I guess there are lots of ways to do it, making it less user friendly? ^a ^a, or ^a n or ^a p or ^a <space>, and that's just the tip of the iceberg.
jeremyjh•3m ago
Why would you pay 10s of thousands of dollars to get a credential everyone knows is meaningless? The first ChatGPT grads are just now entering the workforce. I have a son entering his junior year of high school. Who knows if a degree will be worth even the time investment 5 years from now.
tejtm•1m ago
If an employer really valued the credential, they would supply it.
foolfoolz•8m ago
we have a school system that rewards graduation and punishes punishment. our public school especially is geared around progressing the lowest common denominator forward at all costs. private schools can run how they want, public schools are paid to do 2 things: 1. get butts in seats 2. have kids move up when the year is over
XorNot•6m ago
What do you plan to do with the people who don't pass though?

Everyone's very excited to have failure rates or whatever and then mute on the real problem: those people don't just go away.

Xeoncross•3m ago
They are still there either way. They don't suddenly become smarter and/or hard working because we pretend.

If anything, it simply increases the pool of people who realize you don't need to try.

ifidishshbsba•5m ago
It’s often not even about the job but to get visas
jimbob45•5m ago
Is the problem participation? Or is it that entire years are devoted to reading ancient books with bad English and unrelatable themes simply because of tradition? Shakespeare wrote some neat plays but they’re not helping the reading epidemic.

Math teachers had the balls to radically revamp their curriculums with Common Core and now their teachings are no longer formulaic but instead stimulate original thought and creativity. It’s high time for English teachers to do the same.

jmspring•2m ago
My step daughter graduated this last week (high school). Watching the curriculum over the last 4 years, they had 5-8 validictorian (all a's) and 6-8 salutarians (sp?) (all a's one b). They would have been at the 3.x level in my high school 25 years ago. The rigor in high school is no longer there, community college is adopting to the lesser expectation as well.

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My Students Can't Read

https://www.chronicle.com/article/my-students-cant-read
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