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The desperation of NYTimes

https://rozumem.xyz/posts/16
159•rozumem•1h ago

Comments

hparadiz•1h ago
I just installed Brother's app from the Apple store.

Immediately met with 4 popups that you can not close until you press the completely fake "maybe next time" prompt only to find out the program doesn't even support feed scanning on my specific printer.

Imagine being a sysadmin that has to install this thing over and over on multiple machines.

If you ever wonder why your app has a 1.7 star rating on the app store look no further.

mbreese•51m ago
I don't think I've ever installed a printer's app on my Mac. I have a reflex against it. The Mac has decent support for printers and scanners built-in, so did you need an App at all?

That's one thing that bugs me about hardware companies -- they all want you to install their app to monitor/configure/bedazzle their hardware. But really, it probably is just going to work anyway. And a printer or a mouse shouldn't need much.

At least on a Mac. On Windows, sometimes the vendor apps are helpful, but usually it's still not absolutely needed (except maybe for GPUs...)

dpoloncsak•37m ago
I second this...in my experience, just the WebUI the printer spins up, and maybe grabbing drivers from their site has always been enough. I'll do anything in my power to avoid that cursed HP app. Although I'm sure there is good money in increasing app downloads, so maybe things have changed, especially on the consumer-side of things
hparadiz•8m ago
I also despise these apps but wanted to see if it had the automatic feed feature. This printer it turns out can fax using the automatic feed but can't scan. Which is fine but they had the opportunity to upsell me on a new printer with that feature but instead failed miserably.
epistasis•1h ago
NYTimes is predatory on subscriptions. Over my long lifetime I've subscribed twice, and regretted it both times with intensity.

Any place that allows easy instantaneous subscription by a simple web form, but makes you call and talk to a person during limited business hours for cancellation, is a toxic place. I've been told they have stopped this predatory practice due to some newly passed laws or something, but they did not stop their predation due to their own values.

I urge everyone reading to unsubscribe instantaneously from the NYTimes for their business practices. Do not do business with unethical companies.

vjvjvjvjghv•1h ago
I don’t remember how it worked but I did a one year subscription last year because of a discount and had no problems cancelling.
no_no_no_yes•1h ago
You can subscribe with your library card and get access to all NYTimes (games/crosswords too).

One caveat is the subscription "rental" is for only a 3 day period, so you have "renew" your subscription every 3 days. This only takes 2 clicks though. For San Francisco public library: https://ezproxy.sfpl.org/login/nyt.

bakul•50m ago
It’s now one day only, at least through my library.
ceejayoz•12m ago
I just bookmarked the apply-code page.

Changes every 6-12 months, but that's easy to update.

Georgelemental•1h ago
> I'm aware media and journalism sites have been getting hit hard over the last few years, but is it this bad?

The New York Times is actually doing quite well financially, they are the exception to the trend

ezfe•1h ago
When I sign in, NYtimes asks me to subscribe to other services, even though my subscription has access to the article I am trying to read.
ryandrake•1h ago
Corporate desperation seems to be on the rise. So many products try to convince, beg, nudge, trick, and dark-pattern you into buying or even just interacting with them. They're all like clingy puppy dogs, begging for you to notice them, read their spam and be part of their ecosystem. Microsoft is one of the worst--forcing you to do things, begging you to do other things, forgetting that you opted out, and just in general nagging users to death about everything.

C'mon developers, stand up to marketing for a change and stop writing these software nags.

pmdr•39m ago
> C'mon developers, stand up to marketing for a change and stop writing these software nags.

Only things they ever stood up for were social issues (that's why you see banners with Ukraine and BLM, etc). Google kinda put an end to that when they fired 28 workers protesting Israel.

I never saw any banners protesting dark patterns.

Now, with (perhaps) most developers in the shadow of the AI-layoffs boot, there's really no hope for change coming from the inside.

mrcwinn•59m ago
NYTimes is not unique, but yes, they are a for-profit entity focused on audience building and audience retention. Their audience tends to be liberal leaning types, and so their aim is to produce content for that audience. This particular example is disgusting.

My suggestion is subscribe to Breaking Points or try them for free on YouTube. You won't get the breadth of content given their scale, but you will get a more honest approach to delivering news.

superxpro12•59m ago
Im curious what the alternatives are the author considers to be acceptable?

From what I understand, the press is under assault from all sides... Internet has killed paper subs, political influence is attacking them... like what do you expect them to do?

skybrian•57m ago
I expect them to treat subscribers well so they will renew.
snickerbockers•53m ago
It's sounds like he wants them to offer paying subscribers the choice to opt out of marketing emails? I'm a bit confused by your implication that journalism is somehow contingent on sending email spam to people who are already paying customers.
lostlogin•39m ago
> like what do you expect them to do?

Take my money, show me content. No adverts. No spam. Let me unsubscribe if I want to.

skybrian•58m ago
Another example of being user-hostile is that they put videos on the front page that autoplay and can't be paused. I will not renew either.
notsydonia•38m ago
Agree -they all do it. How do they justify the bounce rate? It's never once been shown to my knowledge that viewers love to have their browsing/reading/knowledge gathering interrupted by a volume-up video playing (usually) an ad.

Is it just so they can tell advertisers X amount of people "viewed" your ad?

skybrian•30m ago
The videos I'm complaining about on the NYT aren't ads. They seem to think they're CNN or something. I don't want CNN. I want a newspaper.
devindotcom•57m ago
It's not just them. Yeah, this is bad, but I get tons of unsolicited messages from any company I establish a basic relationship with. Every interaction I have with a store or site signs me up for some promotional thing, which I unsubscribe from immediately, only to find it's one of 4 different lists I was added to. Then 6 months later I receive some stupid new thing as they try to drum up engagement.

One that particularly bugs me is Bank of America, which sends all kinds of promotional stuff with a note at the end saying "You're receiving this servicing email as part of your existing relationship with us." Can't block it without blocking actual important banking emails. Experian was doing the same - promoting services under the guise of offering account updates. It does feel desperate, but one has to imagine that this firehose technique works.

notsydonia•40m ago
It's nuts and I can't believe it works. It's interesting that you're getting bank P.R. fluff with that 'should be illegal' workaround - I've been getting them from my bank in Australia and wondered if we had really slack laws. A mass mail-out solution like - say - Mail Chimp would not let users do this. There has to be an unsubscribe link on mass-mail blasts and you should not be able to pretend P.R. fluff is suddenly "transactional." I also don't want to be lectured about mindfulness by a bank!
kg•35m ago
An appliance repair company I used exactly once maybe 5 or 6 years ago recently started spamming me with texts and emails trying to get me to refer friends to use them or use them again. Never hit the "report spam" button faster.

I'd kinda understand it if they had sent me a polite text or email shortly after our initial engagement saying "hey, if you had a good experience please review us/recommend us" but coming in literal years late with a blast of multiple messages screams "we hired some sort of marketing firm and fed them our customer database".

jamwise•57m ago
I only interact with them through their word and logic games. They finally coerced me into subscribing, but to their credit it was a pretty good deal. Now I'm worried.
failuser•56m ago
NYT makes more money from their games than actual news, right? Newspapers are dead and there is nothing to replace them. There is no loner money in informing the masses, only is disinformation. The people who can make money from the news and data buy surveillance data that is far more accurate than the government publishes and trade on it. You can’t have anything resembling a liberal democracy when the monetary insensitive are aligned like this and there is no pushback.
lostlogin•34m ago
ChrisArchitect posted this:

Whatever they're doing, whether to maintain growth or increase it, it's mostly working. Just today coincidentally:

The New York Times Reaches Three Million Digital Subscribers Outside the U.S.. And last month:

The New York Times Passes 13 Million Subscribers

> For the second quarter of 2026, the company forecast a 14 to 17 percent increase in digital-only subscription revenue.

everdrive•55m ago
NYTimes was the only subscription in well over a decade that was just sitting there collecting money when we thought we'd canceled it. It was for some crossword type app game, but it was just eating ~$7 monthly without any use. The only reason I noticed was my credit card bill. I really, really hate subscriptions.
heathrow83829•54m ago
NYTimes and the big media papers in general seem to have this entitled arrogance. Like they feel entitled to have an audience or something.

I've noticed similar predatory behavior from car and driver magazine. they would send me a bill marked "overdue" even though I never reknewed my subscription. they would harass me repeatedly over and over saying that I owed them money. It's fraudulent, and I will never subscribe to any print media or media subscriptions again!

lokar•43m ago
How could they have tested them without detection?
ilamont•54m ago
If you think that's bad, 5 years ago you had to call someone on the phone to cancel NYT subscriptions (the boiler room retention script always gave you an option to extend at the cheaper rate, but it was a pain to have to go through the motions). IIRC new consumer laws at the state or local level ended that practice.

I'm still paying the NYT intro rate ($4 a month billed annually) and on day 364 go to the account page to cancel my subscription before it resets to the "official" rate. Sure enough, they let you stay at the cheap rate if you tell them you'll walk.

Works for telcos and Adobe, too.

As for alerts and notices you can't unsubscribe from: filter or spam.

lostlogin•43m ago
> If you think that's bad, 5 years ago you had to call someone on the phone to cancel NYT subscriptions

I was gifted a subscription and clicked cancel on it in January out of concern it would roll over.

It still rolled over and the person who gifted it had to call them, repeatedly, from New Zealand and spent ages on the phone (at their cost).

halapro•52m ago
This is why I love Apple's Hide My Email. I use it ALL the time and the unsubscribe button is always there. It's not the most polished interface, but it works perfectly.

Also, for any subscription for which I don't use HME, I will immediately "mark as spam" any minimally-spammy email I get. The ones described in the article would be insta-marked due to the lack of Unsubscribe button.

specproc•45m ago
Firefox relay also good for this sort of thing.
robinhood•8m ago
And 1password which works fantastically with Fastmail with their Masked emails feature.
EA-3167•32m ago
It’s fantastic, and also lets you track exactly who leaked your email.
da02•51m ago
I just gave up on reading respectable news outlet like NY Times. I decided to just get it from "fringe" Youtube channels: Danny Haiphong, Dialogue Works with Nima, The Jimmy Dore Show. Recently, former CIA analyst, Larry Johnson, worked with Pepe Escobar and Zulfiqar Ali to vet a source saying Iran has 1 or 2 nuclear weapons. Let's see how long it will take the NY Times to avoid/deny/confirm that story.
metalliqaz•41m ago
Going all-in on fringe YouTube channels is not a good strategy if you want to be informed. Sounds like you are in the pipeline. Next stop: Ivermectin shampoo.
ngruhn•14m ago
Youtubers are using something as sources. Someone still has to do the journalism. Not sure YouTubers can replace that.
tangotaylor•49m ago
I wish we could just have microtransactions to buy access to individual articles at a time. Like physical news stands letting you buy a newspaper or magazine.

There are so many times where I've bounced away from an interesting article because I didn't want to deal with the subscription paywall.

The argument for subscriptions is it helps cultivate a relationship with customers and gives the business recurring revenue. Which is fine if I want the relationship, like with Ars Technica, Wired where I'm usually interested in their reporting. But in most cases the relationship feels awkward and forced, like this linked article mentions.

Like I'm not paying $400/year to The Information just to unlock a one-off story.

tptacek•49m ago
The problem you're going to have in these kinds of analyses is that the New York Times is the most successful news organization basically in all of North America. They're doing these things because they work.
bluebarbet•24m ago
Causative link not established. The NYT is (probably) the world's most successful legacy-newspaper business for many other reasons too. For example, its historic reputation as the paper of record; network effects and digital first-mover advantage; and America's need for a locus of media opposition to a bossy government.
tptacek•23m ago
The Washington Post is a national paper of record as well and it's in a tailspin; newsletters, games, and recipes are huge business areas of the Times.
ChrisArchitect•48m ago
Whatever they're doing, whether to maintain growth or increase it, it's mostly working.

Just today coincidentally:

The New York Times Reaches Three Million Digital Subscribers Outside the U.S.

https://www.nytco.com/press/the-new-york-times-reaches-three...

And last month:

The New York Times Passes 13 Million Subscribers

> For the second quarter of 2026, the company forecast a 14 to 17 percent increase in digital-only subscription revenue

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/05/06/business/media/new-york-t...

mherkender•47m ago
If being user-hostile in tech created real consequences, Facebook would've shuttered 15 years ago.

Sad to say but I'm guessing this is an effective strategy.

Terr_•42m ago
> Facebook would've

Given how the "hostility" is often more than just ugly-UI, and aspects like monopolies, surveillance, and billing you for services you don't want, I think this is relevant:

> I've written before about the futility of "voting with your wallet." [...] Shopping isn't politics. Politics are politics, and shopping is shopping. [...] No matter how indie your coffee, books and social media, your consumption choices will not have a material impact on Starbucks, Amazon or Twitter.

https://pluralistic.net/2026/05/21/purity-culture/

mherkender•6m ago
I think that's true, but I am still frustrated with people who continue to use services that are openly hostile to them.
dangus•46m ago
Not sure what the author is bitching about. They’re a one-time series of email messages over 14 days.

They are transactional emails. Maybe the author doesn’t agree with that but they’re welcome to take NYT to court over it.

Is their email provider charging you per email or something?

havaloc•37m ago
And you should have the right to stop them immediately. I don't see how that's controversial.
iscrewyou•45m ago
I was a subscriber and stopped simply because they have ads in the app. I could look past the slowness of the app than what a webpage could deliver but ads in articles for paid subscribers? Cancelled it.
js2•40m ago
The subscription fee does not and has not covered the full cost of any magazine/newspaper I'm aware as long as magazines/newspapers have existed. They've always had ads. It was just easier to look past them in print.
nailer•24m ago
They could sell a Premium subscription with acccess + no ads.
basisword•38m ago
This pissed me off when they bought The Athletic. It was billed from day one as expensive, but ad free. NYT immediately put ads in it regardless of the fact I'd paid $50 on the basis it was ad free.
mikestew•24m ago
The NYT, as well as just about every other newspaper, has always had ads in the print edition whether you subscribed or not. Subscriptions have rarely paid the full cost of producing a newspaper. In the case of magazines, I would argue that the whole point of the magazine is to carry ads that target a specific demographic. The articles are just there to make you buy it.
217•45m ago
Also why do they just keep doxing people left and right?

Scott Alexander as the most memorable, and then the backlash after they post the backrooms movie creator's house on twitter recently

Just very shortsighted behavior

nailer•22m ago
Bari Weiss' resignation letter is a good indication of what happened to the NYT in the last decade: https://www.bariweiss.com/resignation-letter
sschueller•43m ago
Let's just stop the shenanigans and just already have the CIA finance it directly...
lostlogin•39m ago
What does that even mean?
ethagnawl•43m ago
The UX anti-pattern of theirs which really grinds my gears is the "Continue reading in the app -- it's better." modal which appears when reading articles on the web. There does not seem to be a way to permanently opt out of it. I'm sure I could use GreaseMonkey or whatever to dismiss it for me but I mostly read articles on my phone, which makes any of that harder. The larger point, though, is that I shouldn't have to! I'm already paying for your service, please let me use it the way I want to.
wholinator2•32m ago
You probably know but firefox on mobile let's you use extensions, for which i have ublock origin installed and regularly use it to block modals and things that my filter lists (every single one activated) don't cover already.
ngruhn•31m ago
Despite having a NYT audio subscription, I continue to listen to the ads in a third party podcast app just so I don't have to use their god damn app.
sneva•43m ago
Slightly off-topic, but if anyone needs to read a NYT article from time to time, check if your public library offers digital access. A lot of them do. For example, the San Francisco Public Library gives you 72 hours of access at a time: https://sfpl.libanswers.com/faq/166904.
silexia•41m ago
I used to subscribe, but the quality of the journalism absolutely plummeted around 2020.
monkaiju•39m ago
If you needed another reason to unsubscribe, the NYT has been a persistent peddler in American propaganda to the point that they arent willing to issue corrections for even their most falsified pieces. Their behavior since the start of the Gaza genocide has been particularly disgusting.

More info: https://writersagainstthewarongaza.com/boycott-nyt

nailer•13m ago
The Intercept article 'debunking' the piece claims:

> In a response to The Intercept’s questions about Schwartz’s podcast interview, a spokesperson for the New York Times walked back the blockbuster article’s framing that evidence shows Hamas had weaponized sexual violence to a softer claim that “there may have been systematic use of sexual assault.”

That's not much of a debunking. That article is also bizarre - they talk about "October 7 sensationalism" - a murder rampage among families killing 1000 innocent people is pretty sensational.

Some quick research gives the following first hand reports of sexual assult:

_______________

Publicly identified survivors/victims who claimed personal experiences:

"D." (anonymous male survivor, Nova festival): In July 2024, he publicly described being gang-raped by Nukhba terrorists at the festival. He reported being pinned down, stripped, humiliated, and raped, supported by medical records, a polygraph, and inclusion in a major lawsuit by Nova survivors against the Israeli government.

Amit Soussana: Former hostage. Publicly detailed in a March 2024 New York Times interview being sexually assaulted (forced sexual act) and abused by her Hamas captor while chained in Gaza.

Romi Gonen: Released hostage. Has spoken publicly about repeated sexual assault and harassment by captors in Gaza.

Rom Braslavski: Released hostage. Described sexual abuse and torture during captivity.

Ilana Gritzewsky: Released hostage. Publicly reported sexual assault during captivity (March 2025 interview).

Arbel Yehud and others: Named in reports as having endured extreme sexual violence/abuse in captivity or during the attacks.

Additional released hostages (e.g., Guy Gilboa-Dalal) have described sexual abuse in captivity to media like the New York Times.

tedggh•38m ago
I use virtual credit cards for all subscriptions. If they make unsubscribing difficult, I just kill the card. NYTimes is actually great value for the $4 I pay. I think they have the best photography and infographics of any news site.
arlattimore•38m ago
The fact they know they are sending marketing emails, not associated to your account itself speaks volumes ;(
laweijfmvo•37m ago
I'm currently in a battle with LinkedIn's "invitation" e-mail spam (I don't have a LinkedIn account). Someone (probably unintentionally) shared or allowed my e-mail to get imported to LinkedIn and periodically send me "invites" to join.

There's an unsubscribe link, but it directs me to login to my account to manage my e-mail preferences -- I don't have an account. They have a separate, hard to find, "remove me from your invitations" form, but they seem to ignore that. I finally sent a CCPA request (very hard to find the link), which went unacknowledged, but the e-mails seemed to stop until recently, when they started again.

The kicker is that they think I'm someone else (a relative), so it's all completely ridiculous.

ngruhn•21m ago
maybe mark it as spam? If you don't have an account anyway, you don't miss anything. Also maybe they get punished a bit by being ranked as spam
WarmWash•37m ago
They are desperate, all of media is desperate.

People want news online, and they do not want to see ads, they do not want to pay a subscription.

So if you are media company and want to stay afloat, you need to appeal to the people who are either willing (or don't know otherwise) to load ads or willing to pay a subscription. In both cases, it's in large part people on the fringe. Not your average person.

imoreno•30m ago
>they do not want to pay a subscription.

This is wrong in 2026. Lots of people want to pay. See: TFA

What they don't want is and _still_ see ads, get hassled by needy marketing emails. See: TFA

If you're saying "we're gonna show you ads and datamine you because you're getting it free", then when I do pay, you have to take that stuff out. Try to have your cake and eat it too = sub canceled, adblock on, ad nauseam enabled.

wnolens•37m ago
I subscribed 2 years ago and it took over 2 weeks to actually get my first paper at my door. I live in NYC..

Cancellation wasn't difficult though, and didn't require me to call anyone.

angelofthe0dd•33m ago
I bought into the low-cost subscription offer a few months ago. Since then, I get a huge pop-up ad literally every other article, asking me to upgrade to all-family access. I also receive a similar email every other day. They must be very desperate indeed to have to nag me every other article to upgrade. The irritatingly incessant pop-ups have guaranteed that, not only will I NOT be upgrading, I will be cancelling my subscription at end of the trial rate. :)
curun1r•16m ago
What's interesting is that I can see exactly what is happening behind the scenes at the Times because I've been in so many meetings that resulted in similar data-driven decisions.

Both your experience and the article author's experience manifest in the feeling of an antagonistic relationship and frustration on the part of the customer. But what I'd wager is happening is that the analytics teams have looked at subscriber retention and seen patterns. Perhaps subscribers who use 3 of their 5 key features don't cancel nearly as often. Or maybe subscribers who share with family rarely cancel because they either assume their family is getting value from it or they don't want to have the conversation about whether it's worth the price.

I have no doubt that a pure-digital product like the Times has tons of data on their users and have determined the key metrics that lead to retention. So their natural tendency is to try to game the metrics by trying to push as many accounts into those high-retention buckets as possible. The behavior you and the article author have experienced is the result of an organization becoming extremely data focused and losing focus on the customer experience. It's something to remember for those of us who ever find ourselves in a meeting where we're dissecting retention metrics and trying to figure out how to make our companies more successful.

Gimpei•29m ago
My gripe is that they constantly spam me with overlays about purchasing a family account. As far as I can tell this is unblockable. So annoying.
doctor_blood•25m ago
Beneath a veneer of respectability the NYT has always been a rag. In Steven Levy's "Hackers" he mentioned MIT stidents were calling it the New York Slime back in the 70s.
dbg31415•24m ago
Who still reads emails?

Feel powerless? Set up a filter.

mrngld•21m ago
I just want WSJ/The Economist/AP-etc tier journalism/news reporting that I can subscribe to and get a simple, full-text no-ads RSS feed in return for that subscription. Apparently that's too much to ask. I think ArsTechnica does that, if that publication is your jam, but I'm not aware of any general news outlet that does.

Would love to be proven wrong, though.

J_Shelby_J•6m ago
I don’t think that will ever be possible. Remember that every other news source is mostly just sourcing content from those legacy media outlets stories. So if they offered it as an open API or one that was easy to scrape, they’d be killing their own business.

They all have APIs of course, but you have to contact sales for what I’m sure is a very expensive negotiation. I believe that’s what news aggregators like Apple News and ground news does.

But yeah, it sucks. AP is outstanding. Their push notifications are all the mainstream news anyone really needs for timely updates. But their App is awful once you click on those notifications.

mmclar•20m ago
I posted on Bluesky about NYT the other day after getting repeatedly dark-patterned: https://bsky.app/profile/mmclar.bsky.social/post/3mkiznfgvvk...
jwilber•19m ago
It was almost impossible to unsubscribe a few years ago. Seems like not much has changed.
sandcat_•19m ago
I pay the $2/month. They occasionally try and get me to pay more. No chance, I always tell them I’ll cancel (and I would.)

I don’t get it. If they cut out all the awful mid-article ads, stopped the page resetting to the top every time you hit the back button, and stopped nagging me to install the app (which I don’t use because of the aforementioned mid-article ads, but would use otherwise), I’d happily pay 5x the subscription. I like the content (mostly) but everything else makes me despise them.

I just want to read the news!

TheAtomic•17m ago
The fact that this somewhat banal article has climbed this far on HN tells you that the schadenfreude of seeing the NYT berated is high indeed.

~ just a guy trying to get by on $690,000 a year in Queens

jerf•16m ago
"It's not. It made me feel powerless. It put a sour taste in my mouth. It made them reek of desperation."

Relatedly, I've been answering those dumb-ass "How do you feel about our product?" popups that Microsoft Office is so fond of with some variation on the theme of "Be less needy."

You feel like the stereotypical clingy girlfriend... "Do you love me? Would you recommend me to your friends? Are you interested in the other services I can provide? Would you still love me if a witch turned me into a frog and I could only communicate in croaking sounds? Are you thinking of leaving me? Would you still be thinking of leaving me if I set all your documents on fire and scattered them across the front lawn and then told you my engineers 'accidentally' lost the backups?"

It's not like I have any expectation that anyone, even an AI, is reading these things anyhow.

Your KPIs are not my problem.

m4tthumphrey•13m ago
Semi linked:

I, like many others, play Wordle daily. When the page loads, there is a button to play todays challenge. Then, there is a very small delay (like 100ms) and suddenly a button to "View all games" appears, right where you would have tapped/clicked on the button to play the puzzle. To me, viewing all games is a way to "see what you could have" if you subscribed.

queenkjuul•5m ago
Everybody is obnoxious about emails now. I got "invited to complete a survey about my applicant experience" FROM A COMPANY THAT GHOSTED ME AFTER INTERVIEWS! fuck them!

I'm going to a baseball game soon. Naturally, 3 survey links, none with unsubscribe, because naturally i want a relationship with the team, their facilities, and their ticket vendor, naturally.

Email was a mistake, frankly.

devilbunny•7m ago
Assuming you have a public library that offers these things, of course. Much like people talking about how great Libby is; you can get it through my library, but the selection is extremely limited. And very few libraries offer a good set of options, even for a substantial fee, to non-locals.

I can’t promise I would pay $300/yr to access a great public library, but I would like the option to try it.

My in-laws have a decent (not great, but decent) one in their city, and for sure they will never use it, but they aren’t going to drag the documentation up there and get cards just for me.

dieselgate•59m ago
I respect your opinion but am grateful for and find tremendous value in my NYT subscription. I share it with my SO and read their articles constantly. Prior to getting a subscription I was a "turn js off" kind of person - which is fine I suppose and still do it for other sites. I do not maintain any streaming or other subscriptions outside of Deezer (and a Garmin GPS FWIW). I would like a Bloomberg subscription but to only read Matt Levine cannot justify the cost.

To supplement other news sources am always reading Apnews, Reuters, Al Jazeera and The Stranger (local to Seattle).

NYT is just not a hill I'm willing to die on re: marketing etc.

ProjectArcturis•58m ago
FYI you can get Money Stuff delivered by email without a Bloomberg subscription.
dieselgate•55m ago
Thanks for that! I have been on Levine's website recently and for some reason thought they may deviate in content or something. But will try it out. It's a daily newsletter which is kind of high volume for me (which is why I hadn't subscribed prior) but will check it out. I actually may have been sub'd previously and had to check out because the push-model was slightly too much; would kind of prefer a pull model.
toomuchtodo•52m ago
If you prefer pull, subscribe to it with https://www.kill-the-newsletter.com/

(I subscribe to Bloomberg, and send their emails to feeds which end up in a https://karakeep.app/ instance for consumption)

dieselgate•43m ago
Great idea and thanks, will check it out!
zippothrowaway•36m ago
Great idea and just a note to anyone doing this (as I just did) - Bloomberg will send a confirmation code to the email which you have to get out of the feed. Took a few minutes, but it worked!
atmosx•5m ago
For anyone else interested, here’s the link to the newsletter: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/authors/ARbTQlRLRjE/matthe...
kevin_thibedeau•56m ago
I like their content. I would subscribe, but knowing how their unsubscription process is deliberately broken, I never will.
dominotw•53m ago
gp's comment had nothing to do with value of the publication. are you implying it ok for them to do that because value?

And making it hard to cancel is not just "marketing" . There are even laws to prevent that sort of thing.

dieselgate•37m ago
No, I am not implying it is OK for them to do that because I read their paper.
aczerepinski•50m ago
When you say you’re sharing with a SO, do you mean you’re doing the dance of re-authenticating with their two factor code every few days now that they clamped down on sharing a subscription even within the same household?

This new change has really disappointed me.

dieselgate•40m ago
At least a couple years ago we created a new email for shared online accounts, which is only NYT. It hasn't come up yet and I wasn't aware of their changes; we do not have 2-factor configured and SO says they do not read NYT much... Good to have a heads up for this though.
Centigonal•39m ago
This is an interesting topic. If a company does something you approve of (e.g. do journalism) and something else you disapprove of (e.g. make canceling hard), is there a good way to signal both as a consumer? This is also relevant in the context of companies like Target, which has been boycotted by both sides of the US political spectrum for various reasons.
dieselgate•33m ago
Good point. I vote with my dollar and do not support Amazon (directly; AWS is unavoidable). But that's your point!

I deleted linkedin a few years ago because of the ridiculous volume of emails and their dark patterns about cancellation. NYT is just not a hill i'm willing to die on unlike linkedin, for example

nitwit005•38m ago
The quality of the New York Times as a product is irrelevant to them being predatory about subscriptions.
derektank•23m ago
The quality of the NYT as a product is relevant to GP’s assertion that everyone should unsubscribe from the service though.
artursapek•37m ago
You’re not responding to anything the parent said.
wagwang•10m ago
This is a non sequitur though, you can do good journalism and have good subscription practices, these 2 things are completely separate. The calling to unsubscribe is bs, this is out of the comcast playbook.
brokencode•57m ago
“unsubscribe instantaneously”

Oh the irony of telling somebody to instantaneously unsubscribe from something notoriously hard to unsubscribe from.

Me personally, I just go on the web chat every once in a while and say I want to cancel, and they give me a nice discount.

darepublic•57m ago
lets not throw out the baby with the bathwater
convolvatron•19m ago
I think we need more babies. I would be ecstatic to pay for an alternative source of national US journalism that actually has some analysis and decent writing. NYT is a shadow of its former self, apnews reads to me like USnews. international helps round it out, but it's not super in depth for the US.
nortlov•56m ago
I jumped into a NY Times games sub for a year; couldn’t find the cancel button after a couple minutes of fiddling and ended up doing a CC chargeback in 60 seconds.
filoleg•55m ago
Agreed, I made the same mistake once by subbing on their website. Dealing with the eventual cancelation was an absolute pain.

Years later, I wanted to sub again, and this time I did it through the iOS app. Best decision ever, as now it just sits alongside my other App Store subscriptions and is easily cancelable in a single click.

notsydonia•53m ago
I love this simple but excellent suggestion, thank you.
lostlogin•46m ago
The NYT frequently offer price deals which make it cheaper to directly subscribe. But unsubscribe hell remains (or did in January this year). I’m not in the US.
hsbauauvhabzb•35m ago
Assuming they are both the same price this also speaks directly to NTY: people will give Apple a 30% cut just to not deal with their shitty practices.
failuser•53m ago
And it’s not just them, many businesses force you to call to unsubscribe, this should be illegal. I managed to unsubscribe via their chatbot. Maybe because I’m in California where it’s actually illegal.
brightball•51m ago
Using services that will let you generate single use credit card numbers for subscriptions are great for this type of thing. You just disable the card number.
JumpCrisscross•50m ago
> makes you call and talk to a person during limited business hours

I unsubscribed a couple years ago. It was a click on the website. (Just checked. Cancelling online without talking to anyone is still an option.)

alephnerd•40m ago
Depends on the jurisdiction you are in.
JumpCrisscross•34m ago
I’m in Wyoming. There is zero chance we have any consumer protection laws around this.
mikestew•31m ago
No, it doesn't. I live in WA, with no such consumer protections, and it was a few clicks.
jrflo•38m ago
I unsubscribed ~7 years ago and was forced to call a person. It depends on where you live, I remember reading at the time that California residents could unsubscribe online, but everyone else was forced to call. They then forced you to convince a phone operator that you really wanted to cancel. They may have changed it due to changing legislation, or maybe you live in an area with better laws.
epistasis•35m ago
If you read one more sentence further:

> I've been told they have stopped this predatory practice due to some newly passed laws or something, but they did not stop their predation due to their own values.

OkayPhysicist•47m ago
The fact that they have an online unsubscribe option that's only available for California users is seriously scummy.
mikestew•30m ago
That isn't a fact. Plenty of folks under the OG comment that don't live in CA have said they cancelled online, myself included.
eduction•47m ago
You can usually get a web cancel option by changing your address, because some states, including California[1], have laws requiring it be as easy to cancel as it was to sign up.

WSJ offered me an online cancel option after I moved (cough) to California.

It was a digital subscription by the way - usually they have your address on file anyway because you used it to verify your credit card.

[1]https://oag.ca.gov/news/press-releases/attorney-general-bont...

tobinfricke•40m ago
Any place that allows easy instantaneous subscription by a simple web form, but makes you call and talk to a person during limited business hours, is a toxic place.

Happily, this practice is illegal in California. Sometimes consumer-protection laws work ... and are necessary.

(As a hackaround, try using a VPN to make it appear as if you are connecting from California...)

jjtheblunt•33m ago
> Happily, this practice is illegal in California.

that's totally irrelevant: Conde Nast for Wired is a shameless offender, for example. took me hours to cancel some autorenewing subscription i never subscribed for, perhaps enabled years ago through some dark pattern in iOS, but i genuinely don't know, and am not easily tricked.

ceejayoz•11m ago
Wired once sent my dad to collections for an automatic renewal that wasn't even due yet.
dyauspitr•39m ago
What a load of crap. You can just cancel your subscription from the app or on your account on the desktop.
jsbisviewtiful•36m ago
> I urge everyone reading to unsubscribe instantaneously from the NYTimes for their business practices.

If people stopped buying from unethical businesses it would be practically impossible to function in the modern day. Not only is it extremely difficult to know what businesses are “ethical”, but it’s becoming increasingly easy to assume no business is truly ethical. e.g. Environmentally friendly clothing brand Everlane just sold to SHEIN of all places.

Tistron•33m ago
I've been close to subscribing to The Economist a couple of times, but when I do a web search I find a lot of people complaining about their similar practice of making it difficult to unsubscribe, so I've refrained.

I guess there are more people who give up on unsubscribing than who refrain from subscribing?

jbonatakis•12m ago
Unsubscribing from The Economist was one of the most frustrating corporate interactions I've ever had.

Honestly if it was easier to unsubscribe I'd probably have an on and off again subscription, but I'll never subscribe again because I don't want to jump through those hoops to unsubscribe.

garethsprice•9m ago
It's hard to calculate the number of people who don't subscribe at all, but you can calculate the number of recovered subscriptions from a retention process.

FWIW, as a subscriber to both, I have more often found myself manually renewing lapsed subscriptions than going through painful cancellation processes to get out of them. I get the Economist through DiscountMags.com where it is often available with a discount.

mikestew•33m ago
Any place that allows easy instantaneous subscription by a simple web form, but makes you call and talk to a person during limited business hours

That hasn't been true for, what, almost ten years? When I cancelled three months ago, it was about three or four clicks through the beg screens, and done. No, I don't live in CA.

epistasis•28m ago
I live in California, cancelled about five years ago, and they forced me to talk to a person who demanded a reason for my cancellation, and then argued with me about wanting to cancel.

Do not subscribe to the NYTimes. Use your library card, if one must read it, and unfortunately as the undeserved "paper of record" one must often read it to be kept aware of what others are being fed. There's no baby here to throw out with the bath water, I find other places have far better coverage for all the topics I care intensely about. For example, their Ukraine coverage is basically Russia-lite, and extremely anti-Ukrainian, I haven't seen such biased coverage anywhere else except for far-right rags.

dataflow•31m ago
What a fascinating hill to (with some assumptions about your political leanings) choose to die on. Does the logic go something like "the country may be dying while owing over $100,000 of debt on my behalf, but I'm not gonna let scummy newspapers get in the way with O($100) from my wallet?
spelk•23m ago
.I urge everyone reading to unsubscribe instantaneously from the NYTimes for their business practices. Do not do business with unethical companies.

You are not wrong for thinking that, but I encourage people to consider that generally the business and editorial areas are largely independent of each other because of the value of editorial independence in case they think that the lack of ethics applies to their journalism too.

epistasis•13m ago
Well I would also encourage people to unsubscribe for their editorial practices, and this was the incident that prompted my second unsubscription:

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/jun/05/new-york-times...

They have predilection for defense of elites, including Trump, and have not challenged his corruption to the degree that they have challenged, say Clinton's accusations of corruption. Their defense of the elite in their coverage that launched the war in Iraq, the outright corruption of their own reporters and editors, is not reflected in the overall reputation of the NYTimes. Holding them up as the beacon of good journalism results in poor judgements on what's happening with current affairs, because they are often quite biased in very disastrous ways that have resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people and trillions of wasted defense spending.

More recently, the circling of the wagons of those considered "in-group" like Olivia Nuzzi has also been despicable, but definitely descriptive of the general editorial choices at the NYTimes.

However I don't expect as many people to agree with me that the NYTimes has an undeserved reputation for journalistic excellence, so I focus mostly on their bad business practices.

dualvariable•6m ago
I haven't had a NYTimes subscription since around 1991.

This thread has a whole bunch of Charlie Browns in it who are "shocked, shocked" to find that Lucy has pulled away the football once again...

stronglikedan•20m ago
> Do not do business with unethical companies.

If they got what I want, I don't care about ethics, I care about value. I've just never seen value in NYT.

micromacrofoot•19m ago
The FTC did away with the "call to cancel" after subscribing online, fortunately. You have to allow cancellation using the same method as subscription. So they can no longer do this.

https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2024/10/...

nobodyandproud•9m ago
I heard this, but I cancelled without fuss during the worst of cancel culture.

A couple of years later resubscribed. I also subscribe to the WSJ to make sure I receive a more balanced viewpoint.

xeeeeeeeeeeenu•8m ago
That's why it's best not to give companies your credit card number. If you subscribe through PayPal, you can cancel through PayPal.

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