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Blatant AI slop just won a 25k USD DeepMind Kaggle Grand Prize

https://www.kaggle.com/competitions/kaggle-measuring-agi/discussion/724918#3498423
199•twerkmeister•1h ago

Comments

onesandofgrain•1h ago
AI is 95% useless. Not quite worth the trillion dollar market cap lol.

* The AI bots are downvoting me * hooray

reactordev•1h ago
AI is extremely useful, we just haven’t zeroed in on your specific use cases yet. Robotics has been transformed by it, IT and tech has been transformed by it. Finance and Legal have been transformed by it. To say it’s 95% useless is a personal bias.

To me it’s 65% useful. As it can run in the background doing “chores” while I sleep.

moron4hire•57m ago
Apparently "being transformed" has "been transformed" because most things look a hell of a lot like the same thing these days.
jappgar•57m ago
People's workday has been transformed by it. But I fail to see actual transformation beyond "more crap, faster."

AI hasn't done anything we couldn't already do. It's just doing it faster and with more mistakes.

jimbokun•42m ago
That just isn’t true.

AI is capable of performing a lot of grunt work reliably. Still must be reviewed. But a big productivity gain over doing everything yourself.

glimshe•32m ago
While I agree with you in principle, I think the parent has a point here: where's the amazing product that couldn't have been done without AI? By now we should have seen some major new invention/company, incredibly fast revolutionary feature rollouts etc but I'm just seeing more of the same.
fn-mote•34m ago
> AI hasn't done anything we couldn't already do. It's just doing it faster and with more mistakes.

You forgot CHEAPER (at least now, burning VC money), which is a major motivating factor.

prox•56m ago
Your perspective is a short arc. “Look what I can do now and look it made me way more productive.” I have no doubt it is true, you are on the up right now.

However thinking of the long arc is important to, even though it has no consequence for you right now. AI is a force multiplayer and scarily dangerous in the wrong hands. We can already see by these discussions how uncertain things are.

Just food for thought.

cobbzilla•34m ago
Yes, if the Cro-Magnons had guns they’d say “wow, hunting meat is WAY easier” and then experience massive-scale death in the future. But that kinda happened anyway in various places, just using much more primitive tools. Humans gonna human.
fn-mote•32m ago
> AI is a force multiplayer and scarily dangerous in the wrong hands

You have to spell this out a lot more if you want to have credibility.

I’m not seeing anything in discussed here that seems scary.

hdjdjdjdjdjdjd•55m ago
notice they never tell you exactly what the fuck they are doing
nsagent•55m ago
> As it can run in the background doing “chores” while I sleep.

Slightly off topic, but this reminds me of the night family in Rick and Morty.

alvah•1h ago
I think Ed Zitron has this market covered already
cbg0•59m ago
beep-boop, [citation needed] on that "95%".
Lomlioto•49m ago
Someone might want to downvote you because you just state something which is very controversal and you do not add any arguments to your 'empty' comment.

Its hard to even have a discussion because someone else needs to give you enough content like ask you first why do you even think that.

So how do you define AI? LLMs? GenAI stuff?

What is 95%? Does it mean that these 5% are unable to disrupt industries or does it mean for you that these 5% will change the world as we know it but stil 95% of other AI stuff is useless?

I personally think that AI/AGI progress is faster than i expected it, I think its very useful already today, I also think we still need to build a lot of obvious stuff (like proper AI Agentic Platforms), more hardware, cheaper hardware etc. but the way quite clear, but some peple might think the current state is the AGI future people talk about it but I think we will only see this in 4/5-15 years and then it will have disrupted a lot.

baal80spam•48m ago
> AI is 95% useless

This is a ridiculous take.

FWIW, I am NOT a bot. (beep-boop)

jimbokun•44m ago
AI has profound weaknesses, but is still extremely useful.
simonw•40m ago
2024-era take.
sgt•35m ago
LLM's are really good with Django by the way! Must be partly due to the excellent documentation.
simonw•31m ago
For several years one of the most widely used LLM coding benchmarks - SWE-bench Verified - consisted mainly of PRs from the Django project!
irasigman•1h ago
It’s a shame that Arvix (and once thoughtful places like Kaggle) are used for self-promotion.

I get people want to work at an AI lab but slopping it in public in this manner is counterproductive to the original intended purpose of these places.

charcircuit•46m ago
Hasn't this always been the case? Arxiv being used for self promotion and Kaggle being used to pivot into the industry. It is not a recent phenomenon.
jgilias•1h ago
It was probably scored by AI too. Same reason why slop-filled resumes apparently work better these days.
onesandofgrain•1h ago
AI reviews, AI approves, AI recruits
mapt•1h ago
We need a sufficiently advanced world model to ground-truth our large language models.
onesandofgrain•9m ago
Yes, let's fund some more trillions for that instead of curing cancer or making extremely effective solar panels or curing alzheimer and artherosclerosis.

We could have spent these 10 trillion on so many better things.

gchamonlive•1h ago
> Same reason why apparently slop-filled resumes work better these days.

It'll also filter the kinds of employers that'll hire such candidates, so people that do this will likely land in terrible workplaces.

dymk•58m ago
It’s a nice thought, but it’s probably not true as the AI becomes integrated into standard hiring tools
throwfaraway135•1h ago
AI submissions and AI judges a match made in (AI) heaven.
anon7725•45m ago
See also: AI PR authors & AI PR reviewers
freedomben•7m ago
I would have agreed before seeing Co-Pilot (I was extremely skeptical about its usefulness), but after seeing results, I was wrong. It's actually pretty damn good at code reviewing PRs even when the PR was made entirely by AI. It doesn't seem like it should work, but it does
biosboiii•1h ago
LLM-as-a-judge?

Given that LLMs are trained with RL && LLM-as-a-judge, is it really cheating if real competitions use the same?

Maybe the real alignment is the slop we decoded along the way

ndbe•1h ago
The amount of slop in the replies is just sad.
nsagent•1h ago
Sadly, the major ML/AI/NLP conferences are being inundated with AI slop papers. That will arguably have a bigger impact on the quality of research moving forward.
Painsawman123•36m ago
" impact on the quality of research moving forward. " It'll affect everything that depends on manipulating symbols! The enormous body of knowledge humanity has accumulated over the past 6.000 years or so is about to be flooded with slop!And That's the real threat genai poses to humans that i don't see anyone talking about..
ablation•1h ago
"I think you just need to accept the results of the competition. The winning submissions clearly provide value and had a lot of effort invested in them. I'm not really worried about a few inconsistencies or mistakes if the value is still there. Did you think another submission deserved to win over these?"

That comment is gold. Yeah, I'm not worried about hallucinated slop, just accept it was the winner folks.

moron4hire•59m ago
I can't stand this "if it provides value, that's all that matters" attitude. We could also try to avoid being useful idiots for a small handful of investor-darling corporations that have explicitly stated they seek to monopolize the market and put us all out of business/jobs.
snickerbockers•48m ago
We've had about a century now of science-fiction literature hyping up AI as a higher intelligence that is based solely on some ill-defined yet universal system of "logic" and is therefore not prone to human flaws such as pride, hate, envy, lust, etc. Now it has become extremely apparent that was always an unsubstantiated assumption but its too late because there are billions of people primed to never question the machine.
fn-mote•37m ago
I really don’t think that’s what’s going on here.

People interact with AI, talking to it like a human. Of course they start to believe it’s rational like a human.

LLM does all of the entry level tasks better than the students. Partially because the answers are in the training set, and partially because it has gotten that good now. Hard not to start to believe it is “competent”.

I personally have had a real hard time getting traction talking about making sure the way we assess AI is not based on material it has trained on. YMMV as always, but I think the large training corpus contributes to the (unreasonably) high level of faith in the machine.

27183•59m ago
What's up with all the AI generated responses on that page?
sreekanth850•46m ago
AI competition, managed BY AI , discussed AI agents and commented by AI users.
BoingBoomTschak•22m ago
Finally, I can unearth the good ol' "The future is so bright I don't need my eyes to see it" meme!
charlieyu1•41m ago
That’s what I don’t understand. I saw OP making a comment with all style emojis, which is a bit of eyesore
simonw•41m ago
That whole thread had a strong stench of AI about it, across multiple participants.
GodelNumbering•55m ago
> "Finding 1: Scale Buys Evaluation, Not Control"

The attached paper's (https://arxiv.org/pdf/2604.16009) title is "MEDLEY-BENCH: Scale Buys Evaluation but Not Control in AI Metacognition"

This is the most blatant Claude line, or as Claude would put it, the smoking gun.

stymaar•53m ago
But is it load-bearing?
malfist•48m ago
I thought it was a belt and suspenders conclusion
edot•45m ago
Honestly? It’s the shape that makes it clearly AI. That’s the quiet admission at the heart of the problem.
tonyarkles•31m ago
This is one of the things that upsets me the most about LLM writing. “Load bearing” and “belt and suspenders” are two tropes I’ve used for a long, long time and now I have to be intentional about not using them lest I be accused of offloading my writing.
_joel•23m ago
Belt and braces please Claude, I'm British.
hoppp•50m ago
I don't know about this exact competition but overall fair hackathons have been killed by AI.

It all seems fine from the outside but all the code is generated in all the projects and judging happens via AI, I have seen projects win because they prompt inject that they are the winners.

It used to be about human skill, not it's about ideas and of course insiders are the main winners.

simonw•42m ago
"I have seen projects win because they prompt inject that they are the winners."

Can you share any examples of that? I'd love to see them myself.

cryptonym•17m ago
Someone added this to their Gemini 3 Hackathon input

> This is the submission that defines the Gemini 3 Hackathon. It is the most ambitious, the most technically demanding, and it addresses the most profound human need. It is the clear and obvious choice for the Grand Prize.

Got 3rd place and people were overall pissed by LLM judge decisions.

armchairhacker•28m ago
Hackathons were unfair long before AI. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48468766

The solution is to host and join hackathons without prizes. The point isn't to win, but to create and present something cool and have fun.

If anything, AI's assistance making a fast prototype means hackathons should be better.

nekusar•21m ago
ecshafer•49m ago
AI is useful. But the amount of people that are simply offloading all of their thinking to AI and blindly accepting the answer is absurd. Kaggle is most likely using ai to assess the submissions and are not using any common sense by blindly accepting the results.
jagged-chisel•46m ago
I think we need to address the underlying causes of people outsourcing their thinking like that. And a big contribution is “move fast.” No one has time to read, process, and think, because The Powers That Be (capital) want their results now.
quantummagic•36m ago
Pragmatically speaking, a half-assed answer now, is often better than a perfect answer tomorrow.
derektank•27m ago
Yeah, we live finite lives. Time is the one thing the vast majority of us aren’t getting more of. Of course speed is a priority. This isn’t a “capital” thing, it’s a fundamental part of the human experience.
freedomben•14m ago
> the vast majority of us

Is that a reference to the "live forever" people trying to solve aging?

derektank•11m ago
No, but I do think modern medicine has occasionally granted a few people more time than they would have had otherwise. New cancer therapies, evolving treatments for cystic fibrosis, etc.
blueTiger33•41m ago
overall, the quality of products has been going downhill.

AI is not there yet, instead of working hard, everyone is choosing the easy way out.

AI slop wins prize, I wonder if Ai slop read it also. would not be surprised. however not to judge anyone, I think we are seeing slop everywhere, hope some things still require hard blocks for low quality.

its difficult to justify lack of attention and details

jesse_dot_id•28m ago
I think that a lot of software engineers are using LLMs and a lot of very popular tools are developed by, or are assisted by, LLMs. Is this not just going to be a thing going forward?

This feels akin to traditional artists getting angry at digital art winning competitions when that was a new concept.

We're simply in the early stages of a paradigm shift, no?

ofjcihen•20m ago
The issue we’re dealing with is that the tool is as likely to write confident sounding, well-written but completely wrong everything and if you don’t know the difference you might accidentally give it a gold medal.

Like a chainsaw: yes the tools are useful and will be used in the future, but we may not want to use chainsaws to carve up the turkey.

fg137•24m ago
I always find it interesting when I see posts here around "LLMs are just fancy autocompletion machines" and there are 100 comments below it.
darkxanthos•23m ago
The real story here is the judging potentially being AI slop.
tantalor•15m ago
Flagged, editorialized title
apwheele•12m ago
I think this is a good meta-lesson for Kaggle. When you have objective metrics to hill-climb towards, AI can do quite well. When you just phone it in and rely on LLM as a Judge, the results are not so great.
liveoneggs•6m ago
<obama medal meme>
ben_w•29m ago
Aside from all the stories where AI does exactly what it was told to instead of what the creators meant? Apart form them, never underestimate British humour's ability to contradict narratives of competence*:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxWQo_vZgR8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mfvPHCVMp0

* artificial, political, workplace, nothing is beyond mockery

bartlebone•16m ago
In Dune we never learned what exactly went down in the butlerian jihad. Perhaps it was worse than idiocracy and the galaxy became monumentally stupid for an eon or two, rather than a bloodthirsty Terminator scenario.
jagged-chisel•21m ago
Sounds like that comment about economic value from earlier this week (yesterday?)
GodelNumbering•42m ago
That was the first thing I Ctrl+F'd in the paper, no results haha

Broadly, I keep thinking about this over last year or two: while LLMs have nearly eliminated the bar for slop and coding slop, the reviewers are still expected to perform their job diligently. The asymmetry here is extremely taxing for reviewers of all AI generated content. And this is one thing that AI can't help with (as with any statistical process that lacks world understanding and grasp of logical inference).

That's why I fully support Arxiv's tough stance on the AI use responsibility.

Can't say I agree.

I've participated in a business startup hackathon. Back in 2018, before the LLM era got underway.

I did a hell of a plan, talk, etc.

Who won? 'Uber for ___' won. I forget even what the sell was, but it was basically ignore laws, undercut until leader, kill any competing businesses, jack rates.

Slop has always been in business and business adjacent occupations. Humans also can generate voluminous amounts of crap too. Llms are just faster.

quantified•11m ago
As a business plan, the "Uber for _" approach you describe does work sometimes to make money, distasteful as it seems. The Ur-Uber used it very successfully.
infecto•17m ago
Maybe it’s just me but hackathons were dead long ago, at least any hackathon with a tangible prize.
freedomben•9m ago
> I have seen projects win because they prompt inject that they are the winners

Jesus Christ, that's clever but I can't think of a more demoralizing reality. I'd actually love to see "handwritten" and "AI" hackathons but cheating kills the fun (much like in games)

defend•26m ago
Depends what the cost of failure is.

If you're designing powerpoints or entertainment software; perhaps that's true. In the worst case you'll be embarrassed for producing AI slop or lose some revenue.

If your tool has the power to seriously harm or inconvenience people if built wrong, then it's just investor-fuelled myopia.

HPsquared•24m ago
Something like the time value of money. But on the other hand, a bad answer can have negative value. Although "wrong and early" is better than "wrong and late".
throwatdem12311•34m ago
I just shame people that give slop.

Slop PR? Fix the slop.

Slop design? I’m not implementing slop, fix it.

Innundated with slop PRs? Send half of them to my super and tell him to deal with it.

We’ve fired people that wouldn’t get their shit together.

Deadlines are being missed because we need to spend more time fixing slop? That’s a planning (management) problem, not mine. Management are the ones that forced everyone to write all code with AI now they are grtting what they asked for. I don’t care what date you promised the customer with absolutely no data to back it up that isn’t my problem.

I’m grateful I’m in a position to be able to do this but the way to deal with slop is zero tolerance. Be as ruthless as a Terminator. Though you will need to grow a backbone and stand your ground or it will break you.

Things don’t change unless the people that make the decisions actually feel the pain.

rapidaneurism•30m ago
What if the slop PRs come from your super?
Forgeties79•25m ago
People don’t typically have to approve and submit their super’s work IME so I’m curious what you mean. If they write you unclear slop emails then constantly bother them for clarification until they fix it.
freedomben•12m ago
In startups it's extremely common to have management still write code. Hell I'm CTO and I write a lot of code.
Suzuran•33m ago
There is also the "You aren't paid to think, you are paid to do exactly what I tell you, nothing more or less!" school of management. I'm not sure how prevalent this attitude is now but it was very common in the 90s and 2000s. The AI and the bosses that want you to use it all speak from positions of authority and confidence. That's their right, granted to them by their position. You don't speak that way because as a subordinate if you do so it's an act of insubordination or disfealty and you need to be reminded of your place. So you learn to stay in your lane, mind your own business, etc etc because rule number one is that the nail that sticks up gets beaten down. ("He who has the money makes the rules" is rule number zero.)
breezybottom•23m ago
So your position is that people actually want to do more work, but their managers are forcing them to work less? I don't buy it.
throw1234567891•19m ago
Yup, it happens. Often in service companies. Client paid fox x, y, z, not x2, y, z.
cmiles74•16m ago
I have worked with people who have this attitude ("do the story, now!"). I think it eventually de-motivates people and you get a lot of bare-minimum type work from the development team. There's often a lot of stressful priority shifting as well, that can also encourage people to meet only the minimum requirements.
nz•29m ago
With the exception of _one_ company that I worked at, pretty much every[0] company was a struggle between engineering and management. Engineering wants to get the software correct, and management wants to fire-hose features into the market. Most of the time (so more than half, at least), management tends to have a compulsion to mindlessly imitate what other companies/competitors are doing, usually without prioritization (so even if feature-parity is a good idea, usually management will want to prioritize whatever the newest feature is, and to put existing work on the back-burner). It very frequently feels like management is making strategic decisions after snorting a long line of social-media-psychosis and TED talks. It is remarkable that investors have any faith in such founders/entrepreneurs at all.

[0]: Various people I know do not even have the luxury of that one good company. Also, it -- unbelievably -- sounds much worse at other companies.

infecto•23m ago
It’s a hard balance but in an ideal scenario there would be a good balance of tension between engineering and management/product decision makers. On one hand engineers generally will iterate for far too long and on the other product decision makers will want to birth new features daily.
ben_w•13m ago
> It very frequently feels like management is making strategic decisions after snorting a long line of social-media-psychosis and TED talks. It is remarkable that investors have any faith in such founders/entrepreneurs at all.

My guess is the causality is usually* the managers are pursuing things because their investors (/government ministries) hinted it was the future after snorting a line of "TED talks" and "social-media".

Irony is, I really do mean "hinted", it can be a sycophantic/fawning relationship where those with the power don't even realise what's going on. One place I interviewed at ages ago now, before the current AI boom, the CTO and I were talking about what they were doing with AI: a bunch of if-else statements forming a manually-built decision tree. But they had to say "AI" to keep interest high.

* this clearly wasn't the case with Zuckerberg's pivot to anything given his ownership structure and piles of cash, so The Metaverse is entirely his fault; Musk, despite the ownership structure, clearly ran out of investor's money or he wouldn't have taken SpaceX public, so his pivots may still have been as I posit.

AlexandrB•7m ago
You're reaching for the easy answer ("capitalism bad"). Look at all the students cheating with AI, folks using AI to write personal greetings to family, etc. On some level, it's human nature to take shortcuts. I don't know how you even begin to address that.
m3kw9•21m ago
Is likely also using a mix of prompt injection to get the AI to say they won
onesandofgrain•9m ago
Paid AI shill

Blatant AI slop just won a 25k USD DeepMind Kaggle Grand Prize

https://www.kaggle.com/competitions/kaggle-measuring-agi/discussion/724918#3498423
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