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Cormac McCarthy's tips on how to write a science paper (2019) [pdf]

https://gwern.net/doc/science/2019-savage.pdf
113•surprisetalk•4h ago

Comments

kylecazar•1h ago
"Use minimalism to achieve clarity. While you are writing, ask yourself: is it possible to preserve my original message without that punctuation mark, that word, that sentence, that paragraph or that section?"

This echoes advice I first read in Strunk & White. It remains the most actionable tip for better writing I'm aware of, technical or otherwise.

Aside: I consider McCarthy's residency at SFI an ideal job

marcuskaz•1h ago
Sorry, but he takes it too far. McCarthy's omission of punctuation makes his books difficult to understand who is saying what, and a challenge to follow especially with dialogue. The Road and No Country for Old Men both do not contain quotation marks for speech, and he omits the common speech tags like "he said" or "she exclaimed" which makes it a challenge to know who is saying what. It is a choice and the art form he's choosing, but is far from writing for clarity.
mariusor•1h ago
I would assume that his suggestions for clarity in "scientific papers" and his literary style don't overlap all that much to infer the former from the later.
greenie_beans•51m ago
> the former from the later

my writing advice:

never use the former and the latter

mariusor•13m ago
Does it make me sound pretentious? That's fine, we're debating literary styles after all. :D
suuuuuuuu•47m ago
This is certainly the case, but it does make it all the more amusing that the myth

> Commas denote a pause in speaking.... Speak the sentence aloud to find pauses.

made its way into this article. Hard to imagine that this particular point, to which I might attribute many of the comma splices I see in scientific writing, actually came from a professional writer.

sacredSatan•1h ago
I agree about clarity, so this is just an aside but that's what makes it a fun experience for me. It's unlike reading anyone else (although I haven't read many authors). I'd say no country for old men was still pretty straightforward, but I had to re-read sentences and whole paragraphs with blood meridian.

The work makes it worth it, makes it that much more rewarding to me personally. It's like choosing to play a difficult videogame, because you know once you overcome it, it'll be great.

marcuskaz•1h ago
I agree, his literary work is unique, and does take a bit more work to read, and with that it includes additional meaning behind it. For example, in The Road often times it doesn't even matter if its the boy or the man saying it.

However, I wouldn't take his advice on how to write for clarity. I too often found myself rereading paragraph, "wait is this description or dialogue", "who said that" - this is not what you want in scientific papers

greenie_beans•1h ago
technical writing and fiction writing are two totally different forms of writing. the ability to modulate between those disciplines is the sign of a good writer.
throwpoaster•41m ago
> The Road and No Country for Old Men both do not contain quotation marks for speech, and he omits the common speech tags like "he said" or "she exclaimed" which makes it a challenge to know who is saying what.

I am reading NC4OM right now and this is not, technically, the case. He does use those “speech tags”.

amelius•1h ago
When I read papers I often think: if only the author had the space here to write two sentences instead of one, then perhaps I would immediately understand what they are trying to say.
cyrillite•1h ago
Sometimes two sentences is the minimum necessary number of sentences, but everybody should be wary of that instinct
bbminner•45m ago
Oh, that's the only way to write a good paper - first you write 1.5x pages to figure out what you want to say, and then, with this knowledge, you replace entite confusing paragraphs with short sentences focused on exactly that. When i don't know how to express an idea, i ask myself "-so what idea are you trying to communicate? -well, that XYZ holds -if so, just go ahead write literally that!"
raincole•3m ago
It's a great way to write fiction too. But only if you're not marrying to what you write.
sfpotter•1h ago
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
treetalker•1h ago
Yet behaving consistently according to well-chosen rules is a path to probable prosperity and, often, greatness.
auggierose•1h ago
I guess that means that machines will be greater than man could ever hope for.
sfpotter•58m ago
What kind of greatness? Or prosperity? Well-chosen according to whom?
throwpoaster•40m ago
You’re using an absolute attachment to relativism to critique objectivism. This is a category error.
sfpotter•30m ago
Strawman word salad.
throwpoaster•39m ago
Big brain socialist “everything is a special case” quote.
paulpauper•1h ago
Aside: I consider McCarthy's residency at SFI an ideal job

This is a testament to just how multifaceted he was.

dsizzle•33m ago
Yes, I came here to say this sounds a lot like Strunk & White
wintercarver•1h ago
Would love to read any of the scientific papers that McCarthy supposedly edited diligently, should anyone happen to know of some. Very curious to see what they read like.
ddawson•1h ago
Cormac McCarthy was deeply interested in physics and mathematics and was a trustee at the Santa Fe Institute, which has a heritage connected with Los Alamos National Laboratory. I don't know a lot about this side of him, only reading about it after reading his last two novels which do show a mastery of physics that really seemed to mirror his master of bridles and guns and culture in the old west. I don't remember reading that he had actually published any of this himself but he was spoken of as intensely curious about physics.
aivuk•1h ago
Not exactly a scientific paper, but he wrote this essay about language: https://nautil.us/the-kekul-problem-236574/
paulpauper•1h ago
These are good tips for any non-fiction writing, not only limited to technical papers
cubefox•50m ago
I like the advice about avoiding footnotes. Citing sources is fine. Almost all other footnotes and links should either be omitted or incorporated into the main text. They are too disruptive to the flow of reading.

> Find a good editor you can trust and who will spend real time and thought on your work.

Haha, sure, I will send it to my LLM -- ... I mean "editor." :)

buildmonkey•38m ago
Footnotes make scientific work more accessible and enrich the conversation. In Laurie Garrett’s “The Coming Plague”, the footnotes alone are worth the price. Even in monographs, when reviewing literature in an area where I’m not a specialist, I find footnotes valuable.
gmueckl•25m ago
Footnotes effectively have no place in CS, engineering or natural sciences. Other disciplines treat footnotes very differently, I think.
boricj•41m ago
I recently wrote a paper for a conference that ended up being rejected, with a split review (2 for, 1 against).

As a non-academic that wrote a paper for the first time, I'll say that writing a good science paper takes an absurd amount of time, even on a topic you are very well versed in. It is also way different than other forms of writing, like blogs or technical documentation.

Frankly, I'm astounded I've even managed to get that result, working on it just one month from the submission deadline (a ridiculously massive time crunch) and only in my spare time, not having touched LaTeX in almost a decade. But if a proper heretic like me managed to get that far on their first try, then everyone who's considering writing a paper for the first time ought to have hope.

I might've somehow got an invitation to present a poster out of this, but that's a story for another day (still wrestling with Inkscape on that one).

haxiomic•36m ago
Congratulations on getting that far! There's a story there – how did you get into writing this paper? What is it about?
suuuuuuuu•37m ago
I like a lot of the advice here, except

> Keep sentences short, simply constructed and direct. Concise, clear sentences work well for scientific explanations. Minimize clauses, compound sentences and transition words — such as ‘however’ or ‘thus’ — so that the reader can focus on the main message.

Repetitive sentence structure is not engaging and lulls a reader to sleep, no matter the context. Clauses and transition words and nontrivial sentence structure allow for qualification and clarification, juxtaposition and contrast, and emphasis, often with many fewer words than if written as a series of single independent clauses. A short sentence following longer ones punctuates its point and can effectively lead into subsequent sentences that express more complex ideas/explanations.

In my own scientific writing I also frequently use compound sentences to indicate that the ideas are related (causally or otherwise). It's also unclear to me how one could more efficiently communicate logical or causal flow between ideas than with transition words like "thus" or "therefore."

seanhunter•32m ago
Cormac McCarthy was an amazing writer. For anyone with a strong stomach I would recommend "Blood Meridian". It's one of the most extraordinary books I have ever read. At times achingly beautiful, at times utterly horrifying. It's a really remarkable journey and the memory of it still troubles me.

David Foster Wallace wrote a memorable review of it once in a piece for Salon, which read (in its entirety)

"Don't even ask."[1]

If you've read the book, you know.

[1] The article is "Five direly underappreciated U.S. novels > 1960." https://www.salon.com/1999/04/12/wallace/

abdullahkhalids•18m ago
Most of the advice is good, though not particularly different from an advice you would give about writing any essays. This one though:

> Avoid placing equations in the middle of sentences. Mathematics is not the same as English, and we shouldn’t pretend it is.

I don't know what to make of it. Equations are supposed to be part of sentences, and mathematical equations are compact expressions of relations. For example, the sentence,

    Newton taught us that force is equal to mass times acceleration, where both mass and accelerations are inertial quantities.
can be compacted as

    Newton taught us that $F=ma$, where both the mass $m$ and acceleration $a$ are inertial quantities.
This becomes more useful with more complex relations. Generally, hanging mathematical expressions (those independent of sentences) should be avoided to the utmost in any technical report.
parpfish•13m ago
one thing i've noticed about scientific writing:

many early-career folks are afraid to make things too simple and easy to understand because they (subconsciously?) fear that it makes their work seem simplistic or trivial.

when you're an academic that has built a great deal of your self identity around being perceived as 'the smart one', it takes a fair amount self-confidence to start presenting yourself in a way that is easy to understand

jeremyscanvic•3m ago
I keep hearing this exact same idea and it puzzles me a great deal. Is it a computer science thing? I'm doing a PhD in signal processing / engineering and people seem to care a lot about giving simple and clear explanations so I don't really relate!

Cormac McCarthy's tips on how to write a science paper (2019) [pdf]

https://gwern.net/doc/science/2019-savage.pdf
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